Feeling Conflicted with my 2020 Limited....

I know, but who's buying the trade-in from the dealer, when they could get a brand new car for the same price if they qualify for the tax credits? Maybe there are a lot of people with different tax situations, like retirees, who don't have enough income to buy a brand new one and take advantage of tax credits.

 

Yeah, a full tax credit may not be available for everyone. Plus a $3500 rebate is only available in New England. I saw a thread by an OP in CA thinking to buy used 2017 PRIME PLUS with 100K miles for $17k.
Should I upgrade from a 2012 C to a 2017 Prime? | PriusChat

 

I do agree that the Prime feels more agile, but the newer Leafs are definitely faster. Here are some testing by C&D:
2017 Chevrolet Volt Premier vs. 2017 Toyota Prius Prime Advanced

Electric 2019 Nissan Leaf Plus Is the Better Leaf We've Been Waiting For

I didn't have the Advanced trim, so I think the HUD would be cool. Overall, I think if the range works for you and you have another vehicle for long trips, the Leaf would be a perfect fit for the price.

I did, but it doesn't have adaptive cruise control so I ruled it out. Also when I bought it in January 2019, the Bolt would have been $7000 more. It's better long term than the Leaf because of the TMS for the battery. If someone is looking for a Bolt, March would probably be the best month to buy since it's the last month before the $1875 tax credit expires.

 

Just got our latest copy of "Consumer Reports" magazine, this issue focuses on cars, the Prius Prime is included in their top 10 and is a recommended buy, whereas the Leaf is not listed as recommended.

 

I don't put much value in their recommendations. If there's anything fun or unusual, they aren't likely to recommend it highly.

 

And according to JD Power, the Leaf is the most reliable compact car:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/398848/nissan-leaf-award-vehicle-dependability-study/amp/

 

I think we’d all agree that everybody’s use cases, and needs, are a little different.

The Prius Prime is a pretty good match for my needs, because:
* I have a 19-mile daily commute each way (with similar driving-distance needs on weekends),
* I can charge at home and at work,
* I can also charge at various places around town we often go to,
* Many of those places around town, including work, participate in an excellent EV-incentive (cheap charging) program by Austin Energy (the Utility here), and
* I still have the occasional-to-periodic need to go longer distances, which I want to do very efficiently.

As a result:
* I’m at about 95% EV in town,
* That, at a very low cost per mile,
* Still able to get high-MPG gasoline trips to Houston, for example, and
* I’m putting very-low wear on the Prime’s engine, meaning that it will probably last well over 200Kmiles, which gives me some serious economy from the car (paying >$34K for a car once every 20 years saves a lot of money over doing that every 12 years!).

The Prius Prime is probably not a very good match for somebody who, for example, needs to drive well over 25 miles per day, pretty much every day, and almost never takes long road trips (or is OK to do so in a different vehicle). That, especially if you need a roomy car for kids, etc.

If that’s closer to your situation, and you do need road-tripping capability, I think you should consider a Tesla Model 3, or a Honda Clarity PHEV.

 

I sold our 2010 for a 2019 Prime Plus.

I have a 38 mile one way commute and have 2 kids.

This car has gotten 140 mpg over the 19k miles I have put on it in less than a year.

I'd say it's a great car for those conditions.

 

Curious, IIRC (I watched it a while back), according to this summary of Consumer-Reports findings, the LEAF wasn’t even on their list, and the P.Prime ranked quite highly:

Oh, and also don’t forget the Tesla Model Y, at the time of writing this, due out in a couple weeks. There’s considerable evidence that it’ll sell pretty well both in the US and China.

That’s certainly the right kind of analysis to perform. In our case, in Austin TX, the numbers are more like $0.12/KWh and $2.20/gallon. That works out to ~40% cheaper on electric.

That is, charging from home. As I alluded earlier, Austin Energy has a “Plug In EVerywhere” program that lets us charge all we want around town for, essentially, a dollar a week. That, for me at least, works out to around a half a cent per mile!

Either way though, there are other than cost-related benefits to to driving EV: Quieter, less smelly, gas stations being disgusting and sometimes even dangerous places (e.g., skimming CCs), and, speaking of disgustingness, in my personal case, I just find gasoline a really hideous substance! As for whether those can overcome monetary concerns ... well, that’s a different question.

Then again, when it comes to quietness, the Prius biggest noise source seems to be road noise, not engine noise.

 

Yeah, I wish I can be fossil fuel independent, but the situation in rural New England is quite different from the city dwellers. Even with my short 18 miles (one way) daily commute, I have to use a gas engine on my PRIME most of the year. There is no charger at work. There is no public charger within 200 miles of my house. Even though I buy electricity from a 100% renewable source, we are fully dependant on oil for our daily living. I can't heat my house with electricity only. The amount of gasoline I used for PRIME over the last 2years and 7mo is 476 gal for 15k/year drive. This is over 30% reduction from my previous Gen3 Prius Hybrid for the same 15K/year drive. Yet, we use more than 500 gal of heating oil in a single winter year after year.

 

You can heat your house with electricity only! There are cold weather heat pumps that work down to -13F or lower. They are often mini splits, but there are ducted options available too. That should be good enough for most places in New England, but if it gets colder you can use electric baseboards or wood as a backup. Or if your existing heating system is still functional, leave it in place as a backup.

 

Yes, I know it is physically possible if money is no object. But financially, it is just not a plausible solution in an older house with many rooms to heat and no ducts. Installation cost alone would make it cost-prohibitive, and ongoing operating cost is not going to save any money over cheap oil.

 

Assuming you have a boiler, in theory an air to water heat pump could replace the boiler. But unfortunately there aren't really any good options on the market that can put out high temperature water, and your radiators were probably designed for high temperature water or maybe steam.

I have the same problem. Mini splits are likely possible for my house since I'd only need three heads, and that would leave two or three rooms with electric baseboards. But it would cost more to run than my natural gas heat.

It would be nice if there were tax credits like for EVs. I wonder which one would have more environmental impact?

 

I recently had an installer come to give me a quote for replacing our aging oil boiler with more efficient oil boiler. The price was about the same as what would cost to install single mini split heat pump on our main floor living dining area where we spend most of our time. But the heat pump installation is assuming I have functional whole house boiler based heating system. I would be using the heat pump only to provide heat to main room we occupy most of the time, but no heat to other rooms. For our location, the least expensive environmentally friendly (although not carbon free) heating option would be to replace the oil boiler with a wood burning boiler. Still it will be a substantial cost, but it is far more amenable than 100% electric option. Only thing is that wood burning boiler would requires much more hard work for delivering wood pellet, cleaning ashes, and general maintenance. If I was getting younger, I may consider, but at my age, I would not even think to try that rout.

 

Okay, no problem, everyone is entitled to their views, but I figured since Consumer Reports do not take advertising their test results are expected to be unbiased. Anyhow, the customer approval ratings they show seem to support how well the Prime is liked by the owners themselves.

 

CR is presumably unbiased, but that doesn't mean their methodology is sound or their conclusions valid. They do better with some kinds of products than others, but all of their reviews are kind of dumbed down so that the reader won't have to dig into the details. Thing is, the details often matter.

 

Right. For cars they target the most average "soccer mom" consumers. The features and qualities they value in a car are very different from what I value.

In addition to the Prime, I have a 2007 Toyota 4Runner which I still think is one of the best SUVs ever made. The off road capability is nearly unmatched in it's class, and the on road handling is an order of magnitude better than Jeep Wranglers of the same age (the only thing I can think of with better off road capability). The fuel efficiency was pretty good compared to similar SUVs at the time, but that hasn't aged well. CR gave it something like a 39/100.

 

I do understand their testing methods might or might not be totally reliable in all instances, but that is why I like how they also include ratings from the owners themselves and the customer satisfaction ratings for the Prius overall seem to be pretty good.

I might actually give as much, if not more weight to the review ratings from the owners themselves that CR includes as part of their articles.

 

I’ve generally found their methods with respect to cars to be pretty solid. For example gathering reliability info from member questionnaires with quite-specific questions.

 

Maybe so. I used to work in the radio-electronics business, and some of the ways they evaluated that sort of product were pretty bizarre. So I may have a jaundiced view of their approach.