Tesla vertical integration

Motivated by Tesla’s rise, BMW stokes up dealer excitement about its upcoming EVs - Electrek

VW To Provide Financial Incentives To Dealers To Push EV Adoption

 

That particular salesperson was long gone between the time I bought that car in 2008 and when I bought the Prius in 2016,

 

And how are they going to compensate for loss of ongoing service revenue due to simpler vehicle designs?

 

Interesting timing with regard to this topic... Tesla Will Use Prismatic LFP Cells From CATL, Says British Company

It is odd that Tesla gets so much accolade for being "ahead" of the legacy automakers, yet it still uses a legacy battery design. Toyota, Honda, and Ford all started with cylindrical, but then moved to prismatic. GM started with prismatic. A most robust approach consuming less physical space was the reason. That was the next logical step forward. Will Tesla do the same?

 

And yet @2k1Toaster 's cylindrical module kit has the same capacity and better cooling than than the OEM prismatics.

 

Cooling becomes less of a priority as chemistries improve. There's also the priority of physical materials used and cost of recycling.

Lastly, keep in mind that as capacities are pushed, outcomes differ.

 

.So, just tell them "never mind" and just keep selling ICE vehicles?

 

Those are only for the Chinese short range Model 3, and apparently it is only for cost reasons. CATL and LG Chem contribution are going to be smaller than Panasonic, and are for just the Gigafactory in China.

Perhaps Tesla will use other battery formats in time. VW's BEV platform was designed for switching between the three, cylindrical, prismatic, and pouch. Cost and supply will be the drivers on which type either company uses.

Li-ion chemistries simply cost more. Even with proper cooling systems accounted for. The Leaf sees some of the fastest battery degradation amoung BEVs, and that includes ones with the lizard pack.

BEVs use liquid cooling for the motors and power electronics already. Extending it to the pack isn't a big cost. The metal radiators and heat exchangers are already easier to recycle than the batteries themselves.

 

tesla surges to $930.

 

You're changing the focus. It has about the BATTERY cost, specifically their recycling... the cells in whatever format is used.

 

i thought the topic was tesla vertical integration

 

Right, and John was giving us an example of where Tesla doesn't need the advantages of its in house batteries: in low range, low performance model versions.

For that John emphasises that it is about the low cost of the batteries that they can get from external suppliers. And the fact that they are prismatic as opposed to Tesla's cylindrical cells is not because one or the other format is generally superior, but depending on various factors, sometimes one format or the other is more advantageous for a particular application.

 

"Simpler vehicle design"? From BMW and VW? Have you met them? I am sure their EVs will be more complicated and over-designed than their ICE products and will require as much or even more service to maintain them on the road. These entities are dead, they just don't know it yet. Their business model is dead, but they are not moving away from it. Too much momentum and it will be their undoing. In due time, of course. Short term they will probably hobble along.

 

except that toyota has already stated that they don't have enough battery supply to make bev's. this is because they didn't build their own battery factory and supply chain. (vertical integration)

 

They have how many ECUs per car? Tesla has most of their computing in one central unit. I understand there is a lot less wiring in the Tesla too, compared to the competing vehicles. The dealers will do everything in their power to keep their cash cow service. That is why they are against Tesla selling directly to consumers.

 

VW will have the only EV that a warranty claim was denied because it was fueled with the wrong electricity.

 

You're to one that brought up battery chemistry and cooling.

As for recycling the batteries themselves, the cheapest ones to recycle are likely the pouch ones, as the structural component is separate from the battery, and plastic bags are easier to open than metal cases.

They do have one for NiMH batteries. I think those patents have expired, so they could use them for BEVs if they want. At the very least, Toyota can stop using Li-ion for hybrids. Letting others use them should lead to a greater lowering of overall emissions after all.

 

Option A: keep selling ICE cars and let your service dept slowly shrink as your showroom sales shrink fast

Option B: Push EVs and your service dept shrinks faster and your showroom sales remain steady.

It's all about eating your lunch.
With Option B you get to keep eating your lunch.
Option A is all about Tesla eating your lunch.

Mike

 

but what will we do if machines replace workers?