1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Model Y ~ EPA's at 315 Miles

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by hill, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,310
    4,300
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Your eyes are lying to you then.
    The Y is larger than the 3, smaller than the Model X.

    Tesla Model Y product photos show best size comparison yet with Model 3 - Electrek
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,174
    8,353
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    This story actually happened last year. It's just now going mainstream.
    .
     
    Trollbait and Prodigyplace like this.
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Likely improved the operation of the motors. Weight hasn't been released yet for the Y, but I think Tesla is making more use of aluminum on it than the 3.

    "Tesla has recent identified instances of customers being incorrectly configured for Autopilot versions that they did not pay for. Since, there was an audit done to correct these instances. Your vehicle is one of the vehicles that was incorrectly configured for Autopilot."
    What happened is that this S got FSD turned on by mistake. If it was still in the possession of the first owner that never ordered it, then there wouldn't be any harm. The problem is that it seems the division doing this auditing and deactivating doesn't check or have access to knowing that the car has since moved on from the original owner. So it gets messy with cars that have been sold off to others. On top of that Tesla themselves had sold it at auction with the FSD listed as available.

    The right thing to do on Tesla's part is to just let those used Tesla buyers keep the FSD. It generates good will, and they get FSD data from one more car.
     
    hill and Prodigyplace like this.
  4. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,799
    11,362
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    XLE
    Since it was bought back undr lemon law, perhaps Tesla marked that option as refunded but did not deactivate it. That would explain a lot.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,663
    15,663
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    From the article:

    "from a third-party dealer who bought the car directly from Tesla via auction on November 15, 2019. The car was sold at auction as a result of a California Lemon Law buyback"​

    Did the original owner get another Model S with the $8,000 features that were removed from this car? This was not addressed in the article.

    If a "Lemon car" was turned in via the Lemon law and an identical "Replacement car" given to the original owner, that would be not one but two sets of "Enhanced Autopilot" and "Full Self Driving". That the "Lemon car" copy was not reset to bare bones software when put up for auction was a mistake along with an over listed, Monroney sticker.

    Timing and processing was Tesla's fault BUT you can't clone another "Enhanced Autopilot" and "Full Self Driving." Believe it or not but modern software is often serialized just like some mechanical parts. The audit found two, identically serialized software and only one was paid and registered.

    This is my speculation but it makes sense . . . and explains how the reporters could have screwed up. Personally, I'm not committed to sending my speculation to the reporter.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,799
    11,362
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    XLE
    So, the dealer sold a feature that was not there. They need to reimburse the customer and fight it out with Tesla then.

    By the way, serialized software is often locked to the physical hardware to avoid cloning.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  7. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    3,760
    1,680
    0
    Location:
    Sanford, NC
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Limited
    I think your explanation makes sense.

    So what we have is Tesla reselling the lemon at auction with the feature still listed on the VIN. That means that the intermediate buyers had no way of knowing that the feature even had the potential for removal.

    Now if the feature is serialized and follows the owner and not the car, Tesla should have anticipated this difference from normal practice. I'll wager that nowhere in the lemon law paperwork was their any discussion of this nor on the Tesla advertising of the feature. Nor on the auction announcement which I'll bet had the feature listed and for which the buyer paid more in the expectation that they would be able to resell it on at a higher price because it had the listed feature.

    So Tesla sold a car that they now claim didn't have a feature that they did say back then it had.

    Tesla should have issued the replacement car to the original buyer with a different serial number on the feature. Their system had an unanticipated case to it.

    If they claim the feature follows the original owner, are they saying that if the original owner buys a replacement car after an accident that the replacement car should have the feature enabled?

    I'd like to be the lawyer on the current owner's case.

    Tesla screwed up and somebody doesn't want to explain up the chain why some $ should just be written off.
     
    bwilson4web and Prodigyplace like this.
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,174
    8,353
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    'often' being the operative word - true - but even when paired w/ hardware, the manufacturers sometimes have to replace hardware & have the capability to reassign the appropriate serial #'s. Several of the Gen 1 MCU's (Hardware) are failing due to the massive amount of logging that they do. Many have been replaced without conflicting with software. Heck even a cell phone's IMEI can be rewritten - if the retailer sends out an OTA to disable that number as invalid.
    .
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,133
    50,050
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    iirc, prius have been sold with features that weren't there
     
  10. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,799
    11,362
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    XLE
    Yes, in December. Not very long ago.
     
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,174
    8,353
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    hmmmm,
    If the original car had FSD? ... can't imagine Tesla 'accidentally' upgrading it, prior to selling it via auction .... AND the replacement car also got FSD? .... most lemon buyers don't go out & get another of the same model ... such experiences resulting in the bad taste in the mouth syndrome. But let's run w/ that anyway.
    So . . . "IF" the original Tesla had OTHER options ... can Tesla come out to the new owner & remove upgrade wheels for standard? Or in the case of a Model S w/ an OTA-upgraded 60kWh to a 75kWh pack ... can Tesla OTA the pack down to 60?
    Just a thought ...
    ;)
    iirc - the article DOES mention (or i read it elsewhere) that Tesla regularly dumps the 'free-supercharging' feature on older cars turned in (whether buy back or tradein). BUT ... owners know it going into the transaction.
    There may be another (nefarious) reason Tesla kills FSD. From those that have OEM upgraded hardware capable of handling FSD (other cars have to get upgraded) owners of said cars report serious MCU logging. "If this extra MCU load results in premature death of the MCU - certainly it would benefit Tesla to take the money (feature) & run, so to speak. Several Gen 1 MCU's are now crapping out due to logging loads ... & its happening just outside warranty. It's a $1,600 - $3,000 part which includes the display (not sold separately). Now - that's one less car that'd have to be retrofitted.
    When Gen II Prius's MFD's started failing Left & Right (cold solders iirc?) ... it was under warranty in most instances. Ours happened just outside warranty, but we bought the extended service contract - fortunately. Rear passenger electric window got picked up too, under the extended K.
    (whew!)
    .
     
    #51 hill, Feb 7, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,663
    15,663
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I think I'll wait for the court case and read the trial transcript. More than once, the lay press writes an article based on their understand but under oath in a trial, we get more details.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    3,760
    1,680
    0
    Location:
    Sanford, NC
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Limited
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,133
    50,050
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    model y pics on electrek, looks very priusish, i like it
     
  15. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,456
    1,704
    0
    Location:
    Rocklin, CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    ----USA----
    At last, heat pump. Excellent.
     
    markabele, hill and bisco like this.
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,663
    15,663
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    It gets rid of the back window, shelf which prevents my Model 3 from being a proper hatchback.

    Bob Wilson
     
    bisco likes this.
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,133
    50,050
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    looks like it will be a very popular car.
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,663
    15,663
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    It will take two weeks for the market to wake up.

    Bob Wilson
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,133
    50,050
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    hopefully that soon
     
  20. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,310
    4,300
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    I’m less worried about the market waking up.
    I’m more worried about ramping up production enough to meet demand.
     
    bwilson4web and iplug like this.