Don't really need to wait two years...just look at Ford's own published specs The longest range Mach E is 300 miles and 100 kwh battery. 0 - 60 time is under 6 or 7 seconds, depending on version. The longest range Model 3 is 310 miles and 75 kwh battery. 0 - 60 time is less than 4 seconds. AND HAS BEEN FOR SALE FOR OVER 2 YEARS. I think that the Ford build quality better be very high to make up for this lack of engineering expertise. Mike
That is some good data. But I have a few comments (bold is from the article) 1. Tesla may build the safest vehicles in America but... Maybe this accounts for some of the acceptance of some issues with the cars 2. On the flip side, the Model 3 sedan has “Average” predicted reliability based on owner feedback Interesting. No? They don't say how they average the results for all the models for a given car maker. But most Tesla's on the road are average. The methodology probably doesn't matter much for everyone else since they all have 10 or 20 car models while Tesla has 3. 3. Volvo finished last overall. Yet they are still in business and have a long time reputation for safety. So I dug into the methodology for how they rate the cars. (see here: Consumer Reports' Car Reliability FAQ - Consumer Reports ) The don't give the exact math of what they do, but the survey questions are grouped into 17 categories. Many of these do not apply at all so it is unclear how this skews the scores for EVs, in general. It has ~zero affect on other car makers since they have so many other car models. For example they rate the fuel system, engine cooling, transmission, engine (cylinder head, head gasket, turbocharger or supercharger, timing chain or belt), exhaust system, etc. About half the categories don't even apply or are completely different in an EV. They don't say but do they score Tesla perfect for these or ignore them? Included is keyless entry. And the Model 3 has had many complaints about this on the Tesla boards. Probably more than any other issue. This is due to the use of your cell phone as a key via Bluetooth. Very convenient and Tesla paid the price for being the first to do this. Should they really be penalized for this (maybe a little but without the raw data we don't know how much this changed the Model 3 score). But the car does come with a keycard that everyone reports works flawlessly. And eventually they offered a conventional fob for purchase. Most complainers still didn't buy it because they want the phone to work. Finally, the wildcards in the ratings are the small sample size and the self selected group of Tesla owners. They say the collect data on 200-300 per model...typically. Are Tesla owners more picky and/or do they report every minor thing because Tesla sends out updates -- while no one else does? The survey doesn't ask "did an OTA update fix the problem reported?" What number of issues would Tesla get credit for fixing while no one else would get any credit? 5%, 10%...who knows... because they didn't ask. Because no one else does it. But maybe that is a factor that makes Tesla owners more satisfied. They call it a reliability and satisfaction survey but they don't take everything into account. Sure, maybe some people could care less about OTA updates. But other people don't care about infotainment, yet it is scored. Mike
yes - AND rumor has it rev-III Model S will have between 400 - 500mile range !! Battery tech continues to advance. Yes - they got growing pains & warts .... but for that company age? Looks like the stock market sees their future. .
FYI, Tesla cheats on their range estimates because they use a different set of assumptions than everyone else. They assume you'll charge to 100% and drive to 0. Everyone else (that I know of) limits charge to 80-85% and most limit discharge to preserve battery longevity. Tesla just recommends only charging to 80% unless you're on a trip but still allows you to charge to 100%, and they start screaming at you to charge immediately once you're down in the teens or twenties (not sure where that nag screen starts) instead of protecting the battery. I'd say their estimates are 15-30% high if compared apples-to-apples with others for this reason.
Well, it's debatable. One the one hand, they do get more range, because they allow their cars to be charged up 15-25% more. On the other hand, doing that wrecks the battery over time. Each cycle probably causes 10-50 times the damage that a regular cycle would. That's why the default is 80%, and they recommend you don't go over that except on rare cases.
This is Tesla, the battery manufacturer with an accessory automobile division right? Nobody thinks they like selling batteries first and foremost?
What do you mean? Tesla allows charging to 100%, whereas Nissan, for example, only allows charging to a float voltage of (IIRC) 4.05V (vs 4.2V for Tesla).
They use the same EPA metrics as everyone. The following is not correct and a reliable source must be provided for this extraordinary (false) claim:
I don't remember. Here's one I just googled: Motor-battery combo performance differences S60, S85, and P85 | Page 2 | Tesla Motors Club "While Model S supercharged at Refuel, I noticed a 60 kWh model tapering current to 32A at 352V while the 85 kWh model was finishing at 37A and 402V. These were values indicated on the dash. 402V / 96 cells is 4.19V and that makes sense for top of charge." Same thread: 403V / 96 cells = 4.198V per cell. It's widely accepted that the maximum you should charge a Lithium Ion battery to if you want it to last thousands of cycles (as opposed to hundreds) is 4.05V per cell. How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University "Table 4: Discharge cycles and capacity as a function of charge voltage limit. Every 0.10V drop below 4.20V/cell doubles the cycle but holds less capacity. "
It's to let the owner get the absolute longest range for the times that they might need it. It also Lets Tesla post a longer range, but it is no more cheating than the posted range for a full tank with other cars. The range with 80% charge likely still beats Tesla's competitors.
Well, it's sort of like if all your competitors only let the customer fill the tank to 80-85% while you let your customers fill the tank to 100% if they want, knowing that would reduce the life of the car significantly if they do it very often.
