Featured PHEV Tesla Model 3

That was something that really caught me off guard with the arrival of PHEVs. The lengths people will go to and the abuse they'll put their cars and families through to avoid the sound of an engine running have simply astounded me.

You'd think RPMs had cooties.

 

This might be more of a US thing. The Prius Prime doesn't have an all the time, no matter what EV mode in Europe. Their EV mode is the same as the US EV Auto mode. They have an EV City for ICE exclusion zones that is longer power, but will fire up the engine when flooring the accelerator.

 

Just read the article. Interesting to say the least, but is it really going to be available in the US market with Tesla's blessing? I doubt it.

 

The article doesn't really spear the point properly- this isn't a product for sale to you or I. This is a technical demonstration. "Hey you would-be EV builders on the sidelines! Here's a way to double your range and slash the cost at the same time, all without introducing range anxiety or annoying cabin noise!" That's the real announcement.

Using a Tesla 3 as a raw material for hybridization is a nice sharp contrasty way to show off what they've got, even if it's likely the only one that will ever exist.

 

the trouble with the engine firing when you have enough ev miles is that it is the most polluting and lowest mpg phase of operation.

 

Yeah, I gathered that much. Thus not of interest for any auto buyers. But even if the product is "for-sale" at substantially lower price than a pure EV M3, I have a feeling that it still is not going to sell any more? But who knows.

 

it's for sale to manufacturers who don't have phev capability. probably for europe (where diesel is verboten) and china.

 

It is a low power engine, like on the i3 REx. If you wait until the battery is depleted, like CARB forces the i3 to do, there is a noticeable decrease in power for the car.

The engine operated in only a narrow range for efficiency and emissions. The company claims it doesn't need additional exhaust treatment, though it appears they are only testing under NEDC. We don't know the exact control algorithmns, but once the engine fires up it most likely stays on for a period of time as it charges the battery instead of simply maintaining current battery charge.

In Europe, and this is where it is designed for, the car leaves home in EV. Get to roads with higher speeds, and the engine comes on, charging the battery, and possibly getting the charge back up to full. Get near your destination with slower speeds, and it goes back to EV mode. Now, I expect any car with this that becomes available will have an EV mode for trips within the battery's range.

This isn't a EREV like many Americans expect from a PHEV, but a blended PHEV like the the PiP and Ioniq PHEV.

 

I had always hoped an Erev of this type would exist

for a driver that plans their longer trips on an EV focused PHEV you could simply activate the gasser at the beginning of the trip and shut down once in EV range

 

The more complicated design of the motor includes 2 crankshafts and 2 generators to reduce vibrations (I'm sure the generators act like flywheels). This gets rid of vibration. A 2 cylinder 1L is going to be more noisy and harsh for similar power than a 1.5L I3 if the cylinders are the same. Obrist is adding sound insulation to reduce the noise. Similarly the vibration of an I3 can be reduced with dual balance shafts, a bigger motor and engine mounts. Vibration and noise is likely further reduced because the engine + generator can be isolated from the car since it needs no physical connection to the wheels. Here you get lower cost and better nvh with a trade off of slightly decreased efficiency.

It is a better design than the rex in the bmw i3, with more power and less noise and vibration and likely higher thermal efficiency (they claim 40.3% @2500 rpm).

My example of the future rav4 phev had a 176 hp 2.5L I4 ice and an additional 126 hp provided by the battery totalling 302 hp or 42 more than your pacifica example. I'm expecting that that drivetrain using 3 motors (mg1 on the psd,mg2 driving the front, and mg3 on the rear wheels) and is likely to be more efficient when using the engine as the engine is more efficient in the power levels likely to be needed. This type of configuration is likely good for heavier vehicles like the pacifica loaded up, but I would increase the battery size

 

The math doesn't work that way if it's using the same hybrid system at the Prius (the power-split system).

Prius Prime:

Engine: 71kW.
MG1: 23kW.
MG2: 53kW.

Total: 90kW.

They don't all add together in the conventional, algebraic way, because of the way the power split system works.

 

I think it has to do more with a few owners who lack previous hybrid and/or eCVT experience and think they bought a vehicle that can be strictly operated as a BEV. I'm not kidding when I say we had one C-Max Energi owner back in 2013 who went to the dealer to make them to drain and remove the gasoline tank. . Umm, yeah, they said no.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on some of these points:

Per wiki:

An optional petrol/gasoline range extender engine is marketed as REx[33] and is powered by the same Kymco built 647 cc inline two-cylinder engine used in the BMW C650 GT maxi-scooter.[55] The system is intended as an emergency backup to extend range to the next recharging location, and not for long-distance travel.[56] The 647 cc engine as fitted in the i3 REx is derated compared to the engine of the same displacement in the C650 GT; the REx engine develops 34 hp; 34 PS (25 kW) and 41 lb⋅ft; 5.6 kg⋅m (55 N⋅m) at 4,300 RPM, achieving compliance with Euro-6 emissions standards[57] compared to the 59 hp; 60 PS (44 kW) (at 7,500 RPM) and 49 lb⋅ft; 6.7 kg⋅m (66 N⋅m) (at 6,000 RPM) for the engine in the C650 GT, which complies with the less restrictive Euro-4 emissions.[58]​

BMW did not apply any fuel efficiency mods to the derated engine but simply operate the throttle at a partial setting. My proposed mods reduce the 'pump loss' of partial throttle operation:

1. Atkinson cycle from delayed intake closing - this reduces the cylinder charge allowing the throttle valve to stay open with less throttle, pumping loss.
2. Cooled, recirculate exhaust - has the same effect by reducing the amount of oxygen in the air intake and leading to a more open throttle plate and less pumping loss.

I'm not expect more power from the generator since that requires a better understanding of the electronics and BMS. Rather, I want the same power for less gas which appears to be doable.

Bob Wilson

 

So wait... Let me make sure I’m following you here... You’re suggesting that RPMs don’t have cooties? Do you have a URL to support such a claim?! (Kidding)

For whatever it’s worth, I’d think that’s more of a hybrid kind of thing than a PHEV kind of thing, since most PHEVs have a usable pure-EV mode. Part of the reason why I drive a ‘Prime now is that I got so annoyed every time our 2009’s %€@& computer failed to turn off the ICE when it clearly could have. So I’ve gotten to where I just plain despise ICEs and gas!

 

hear, hear!

 

You have to wonder why they didn’t just make a horizontally opposed 2 cylinder?

those naturally run smooth without additional complexity, they are also short and wide instead of tall and boxy, seems like packaging would be simplified

 

it's all about perspective & you can easily enough look at it in a different light. That gas, if it didn't burn occasionally, would turn into varnish & gum up your gas backup mode. So - since people like the feature of gas (for various reasons) - you have to keep the ICE healthy. You gotta let it burn eventually, or it will eventually wreck your ICE.

 

That takes years, and is easily mitigated with Stabil.

You could say the same about any of the current PHEVs, including my Prius Prime. I went 6 months without filling up last year, and there was no issue.

 

I just keep a couple gallons on board, and fill up when going a distance.

It’s not an issue

 

Similar. I keep whatever I have when I get back from "going a distance". The Prime's range is so long, that sometimes that's a good bit of fuel. I went to visit family over the holidays - 280 miles round trip - and got back with 3/4 of a tank showing on the gauge.