Featured PHEV Tesla Model 3

yeah, neither of those companies has a clue

 

What people are missing, because the OP article seems to have also, is that Obrist OBRIST Powertrain - Future propulsion technology isn't in the business of making conversions. I really recommend reading the translation of article in post #3.

This Model 3 is just a demostrator, and it is the company's second one. The first was an ICE Geely EC7; it's on the left in the #14 photo(they others are factory for comparison). At the time of the German article, that car was being tested by ZF Friedrichshafen, and seem to impressed with the system. Obrist as licensing agreement with some car company, and this system may show up in a 2023 model.

Sounds like their hybrid control algorithms are better than what BMW used on the i3. The engine also isn't off the shelf, but their own design. It is a 40kW two cylinder with two counterrotating crankshafts to improve NVH. It is reported to be 40% thermal efficient with its operation at that point nearly all the time in the hybrid. For Europe, it won't need aftermarket exhaust treatment.

Trivia: Obrist himself was once an employee of Fenix Wankel.

 

kinda what i and a few others said. maybe the tesla is a publicity stunt.

if they can find some manufacturers who are not capable of designing and building a phev, and phev's become popular enough, they might get some takers

 

Bizarre, huh?

From the article, a range of 620 miles for a total cost of $3,571.04 vs. probably $12,000-$18,000 for a conventional Model 3 Long Range battery providing half the range.

So, twice the range for ~1/4 the cost. I believe I've made a similar claim several dozen times.

 

.... & as far as stupid goes - (resisting Forest Gump quote) it looks like the worlds speed at getting stupider is growing leaps & bounds - faster than hybrids growth EVER did

And if that's not stupid enough - we're getting stupider & stupider by the year, I guess.
Electric vehicles will grow from 3 million to 125 million by 2030: IEA
one would think the name calling could slow down the growth rate .... maybe it'll require nastier insults

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out of how many vehicles?

 

The fact that they work for - and can be afforded by - a few percent of the population doesn't mean they aren't stupid. Look at my post above yours - "So, twice the range for ~1/4 the cost. I believe I've made a similar claim several dozen times."

Do you consider half the performance for 4 times the cost smart?

 

Over a billion.

 

4X the cost .... average Urban Chinese worker earns under $12,000 US e/ year.
• China: Average income | Statista
and yet those stupid Chinese are building the stupid Tesla there. Yea i guess they too are not as smart as you.
½ the performance .... you mean we CAN refine gasoline fuel at home? ½ the performance .... so that home refinery, once fully amortized, CAN operate maintenance free? (with several refinery explosions in SoCal, I didn't know that either). ½ the performance ..... so it wasn't really an EV that slashed the Pikes Peak Hill Climb record?
Wow - i REALLY must be a moron!
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I’m entertained by funny car dragsters and this is no different.

Bob Wilson

 

The Geely was likely chosen by cost and availability. It sounded like they wanted to do BEV to show how close their hybrid system is in ride quality. There is publicity benefits to choosing the Tesla, but it is also the only commercial model with a frunk. Keeping the engine layout front mounted probably saved some development and conversion costs, as that was the original design.

Well, Obrist holds patents, so even those companies with their own systems might pay them if they like the improvements. ZF is a major part supplier for transmissions and mild hybrid systems.

 

Range is hardly “a thing” on a Tesla, even a standard -range Model 3.

On any given day, the vast majority of the time, the vast majority of drivers don’t use even 20% of a Model 3’s available range. On the rare occasions when you do, the vast majority of trips are covered by SuperChargers, which are quick enough that normal driving breaks will cover them.

I can’t really see much use for this, except for the comparatively few people who need to take road trips not covered by SuperChargers.

I’m really impressed and pleased with our P.Prime’s efficiency, but that’s because I find gas disgusting and archaic — soon to be a relic of the past. Putting gasoline-related crap into a Tesla, to me, is a big step backwards.

 

Which is totally irrlevant.

"The vast majority" isn't the problem. Would you be okay with "the vast majority" of airliners taking off with enough fuel to reach their destinations? I sincerely hope not. The FAA requires not only that you ALWAYS do that, but that you have enough to reach a planned diversion airport *and* carry a reserve (usually 30 minutes) beyond that. Most pilots carry even more than that.

If the thing can't reach my desired destination even once in its entire life, then it has failed. In the three years I've owned a Prime, the number of times a long-range Model 3 would have either failed entirely to get me to my destination or required a long diversion and boring charge period is now over ten - in under 3 years. That's a failed technology, despite it meeting "the vast majority" of my needed trips.

 

Well, it means it’s not the right car for the 1% or so who need to get to destinations a Tesla Model 3 won’t get you to.

 

A first world perspective...

How many of us have at least 2 cars for the family?

I do. And the times I have wanted to have both cars driven simultaneously beyond the at home single charge range of a Tesla in the last dozen years is exactly one. (That was to buy my current hybrid at a discount that made the trip well worth my time and I could have taken the train up.) So having a 250 mile range EV would have inconvenienced me exactly never.

I think 90% of our cars trips are really short (less than 10 miles) and 80-90% of the miles are accumulated on long high speed trips.

As long as we have a long range capable gas powered car, we would be a candidate for an EV as a second car.

I'd guess that that is where many of the EV sales might come from.

With the ~15 year lifetime of current cars and lacking a government mandate, it will be a long time to progress to a non-ICE predominate world.

Over time as the rich trade in their early adopter cars and get the newest shiny object, prices will fall.

 

Do you have proof of that 1%?

I analyzed NHTS data for 2 years, and I concluded that the actual number is more like 95%.

 

& how was that any less irrelevant ? - airliners, taxi drivers, choo choo trains, electric or gas Autos need refuelung - & all have to make a stop, & ought to know where to stop, if they need fuel - regardless if a transportation board dictates it by a regulation or not. iirc, the South American soccer team that crashed - trying to fly to some destination with barely enough fuel (apparently it would cost thou$ands to Land, refuel, & get back up to altitude) & survivors reverted to cannibalism. Not preparred. Similarly years ago, there was a sales fellow who tried making it over an Oregon mountain pass .... tons of fuel in the vehicle - that'd last all winter - but not enough human fuel.
Trapped in Snow in Oregon, Salesman Died After 9 Weeks - The New York Times
Same as the Donner Pass.
The moral of the stories -, if you don't prepare to travel, don't travel. That doesn't mean lots & lots of others are in the same boat as you. so why the airliner hypothetical?
Now - back to topic if that's ok ......

i don't know if the whole rotary engine thing on the resume would be my 1st choice ... after all it hasn't gone very far - albeit improved since the days of the RX-7 Circa 1970s. It wasn't Obrist's choice for his Franken-Tesla either.
If we are going to talk great aftermarket plug-in hybrid projects, we ought to sing the highest praises to Andy Frank often recognized as the father of the plug-in car after converting a behemoth GM land barge into a plugin - back when we thought the Gen 2 Prius was as far as efficiency could go.
Andrew A. Frank - Wikipedia
now - THAT's a big plugin!


iirc, Dr Frank's Cali vanity license plat is, "PHEV DAD".