Featured Best answer I've seen yet from Toyota about going full EV

meaning cheap?
You have a hybrid. You patch a bigger pack in the cabin with plug-in capabilities.

I am finding a way to increase my post count for no good reason!

 

when you say 'you', do you mean me or you?

 

A quality way would be to have a proper TMS in a purpose built PHEV.
A cheap way would be to do what was stated above.

 

you're finally learning something

 

sorry, "toyota has a hybrid,,, etc etc.

 

if that method would sell, someone would be doing it. can you point to an example?

 

Yeah, but this is not youtube. I don't get anything from it, other than being annoying to others,, which I'm trying to stop doing that....

Nope. GM stopped their quality PHEV product.
That leaves toyota with the cheap PHEV product. And a much less performing PHEV.

 

gee, i wonder why? oh yeah, nobody wanted the volt. huh.

 

Maybe the Fusion Energi. It is going into its 8th model year.

Of course, do any of us actually know these companies' actual costs to build these cars?

 

no. i just see a willingness from toyota to throw out big discounts when models aren't selling. maybe lost leaders

 

I don't know how many they sold off hand, but I know they sold all of 'em- fwiw.
.

 

yeah, well, if they made one and sold it, thats a pretty good percentage success rate. probably impressed the president of sales to no end

 

I bought one too. '19 Hybrid. And I follow the quests to find one on rav4world. Curiously CAnada and CA are the places with the worst shortages. Yet two factories in Canada produce the RAV4. They are opening two more plants to produce them. And the sales figures bear this out. Now for the ICE versions of the RAV4 it may be different.

 

it's nice to see hybrids selling, but if you look at gasser sales numbers, it's a different world

 

That air cooled battery packs are less expensive than liquid cooled battery packs when cooling system is included in the cost.

Toyota has been talking about the prime pack costing about $400/kwh that is $3520 for 8.8 kwh. The tesla pack is around $140/kwh on the way down to less than $100/kwh (it may actually be there today). You probably need 12 kwh to provide the same power as the toyota pack or about $1680. It seems that a cooling system in the prime given that it already has a radiator would be a lot less expensive than the $1840 difference, but perhaps toyota has driven costs down. Nissan does not seem to be able to underprice the leaf versus bolt with its air cooled versus liquid cooled pack.

 

I don't follow what you are trying to say here?

kWh is kWh, no?

You should go tire kick some day when you're bored.
Drive a Volt.
Then drive a Prime.

The Volt you can drive it any way you want, as hard as you want, without the smelly gasser coming to life. And use all 150 HP !!
~50 mile EV range.

Sure when you're rolling down the highway on gas the Volt gets a small percentage less in MPG.
Everyone's gas/elec ratio is different.
The Volt allows 2 yr oil changes bc it calculates engine run times.
It's (was) clearly a superior PHEV, but it was more expensive....(what we were talking about)..... OH NO....

 

The thing with PHEVs is that customer buy them so they can rely on the gas engine, which means it must be a good hybrid. Volt IMO is not, i3 REX is not... Both geting axed.
A PHEV must not compromise interior space too much, Volt is a fail, Prius Prime also.

RAV4 Prime will take care of both this points.

 

i understand that you and others liked it. i even considered one at some point, but too small. look, a ferrari is fun to drive, but we're talking about building cars that help reduce pollution.
to do that, the more you sell, the more effective you are. volt doesnt help in the dust bin of history.

 

perhaps it'd be best to frame such thoughts as 'imo' ...... even if only based upon the fact that Prime sales continue to flourish even in this poor car buying new generation. As for Volt - averaged over its ~9yr run ..... putting ~47 cars out e/day .... 17K car/yr ..... over 156K cars total, US .... some manufacturers would have loved to have such numbers. Compared to its similarly-sized Chevy Cruze, it would burn on average 3x as little gas. Plus they'll continue to be cleaning the environment for decades to come in many instances. Fail? A prime & a volt ..... their production & utility & efficiency & usefulness? Even looking forward? compared to any of the cars you or I have built? Successful Auto building is hard & armchair quarterbacking is always easier than getting out there & doing better than others. Whole manufacturing companies come and go much less lots of great cars built over the decades getting canceled .... either due to the changing auto climate, financial climate, greater advancements, cheap foreign labor, etc .... not just because they were inherently all-around horrible.
.

 

For its age, the Volt had good ICE fuel economy. It just looked low compared to the Prius, but on this Volt's release, the Prius and Prius c were the only US models with a 50 or higher MPG rating in the US. The Volt getting cancelled has very little to do with it being a PHEV, and more with it being a car when people want SUVs. Ford and GM have cancelled several car models, sedans and hatchbacks, in the US because of poor sales. Production of the Impala, LaCrosse, and CT6 has stopped, or will be ended by March, and the plant closed. The Volt was made at that plant.

The i3 REx rating was bad, because the engine was basically just tossed into the rear like the Prius Prime's battery. Like the gen1 Volt, the engine was more of an afterthought, and it should have been easy to improve hybrid fuel economy with the next gen. I think cancellation of it is partly because battery prices have dropped so much. The i3 was an experiment in mass production of a carbon fiber car. With cheap batteries, it is harder to justify the cost of carbon fiber for weight reduction. The i4 isn't going to make such heavy use of carbon fiber as the i3 and i8 did.