Featured Best answer I've seen yet from Toyota about going full EV

A Bolt is very affordable, especially used, just not high tech enough for me.
How much is a SR RWD Tesla Model 3? (Even if they still offer it 'off menu') Plus it's still a sedan....

Again, you and I, because of where we live, need a Proper TMS.
That means Heating and Cooling the pack, as required.

Blower fans? For the HV pack on a Lexus???? I'll pass.
That sounds like toyota's very low tech approach to trying to keep the pack at a decent temp.

Do you really want a HV Battery Pack right there in the cabin, separated from the passengers by a "blower"?

And it probably requires the driver's involvement in keep the pack cool by always keeping the windows closed and the cabin at the right temp.
And requires the driver to Select: Run AC while the car is plugged in.....
This is toyota's approach to cooling the pack: Cool the whole dang cabin and hope for the best for the pack.

 

It's not necessarily so, we will have to wait and find out. It can be done properly, with air circulating in a closed loop and with dedicated AC chiller, but even if it's done so, fans are noisy...

 

bur - don't both countries want to get their tax?
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Right!

Plus you need your local shop to be able to provide warranty service.
I traveled to a foreign land to tow my current BEV home, (Ohio). But my local Chevy dealer is able to work on it.

Plus there's some shenanigans about different levels of TMS in those models.
I NEED the Real Deal. Liquid based heating AND cooling.

 

sounds like you're ool

 

Rather than better technology that doesn't require added cost & complexity, you insist upon a work-around. That's interesting.

 

better is the enemy of good enough, especially when it results in a 10 year delay

 

Which legacy automaker will be first to market with a high-volume profitable plug-in?

 

What constitutes 'high-volume'?
What constitutes 'profitable'?
Only a 'business insider', such as yourself, knows or cares about such measurements.

Most consumers are just now being told to think of 'Total Cost of Ownership', (over a 5 year period, as most articles reference), and not just initial cost.

And I like to factor in 'Total Time and Money Spent on Maintenance' as a metric to consider.

 

Most consumers are clueless

 

I guess Legacy auto manufacturer counts hyundai-kia out. Because they both have successful plugins & all electrics .... & likely wouldn't offer them up if they weren't profitable.
And let's not forget how all of the detractors said the Prius wasn't profitable when it came out, for the first four or five years so that's not exactly a fair benchmark.
.

 

There's no benchmark. It's a cold, hard reality of business. Profit is required, period.

This is why the early-adopter stage stirred little interest from dealers. They wanted nothing to do with subsidized sales. This is also why raising doubt with arbitrary measures and injecting uncertainty by pretending prior discussions never took place remains an exercise in distraction.

Watch what happens. Toyota's slow & wide approach doesn't appeal to some, so they spin stories to make it seem there's only a single path to success, one contrary to Toyota's success model... hence a meaningless benchmark.

 

i don't consider hunday/kia plug ins successful. depends on your benchmark, i guess

 

If success simply needs volume of sales, over the past 18 years, Toyota & VW still rule, _10 million units each) though big sellers here are Lexus/Toyota SUVs & Pickups nowadays. At least they make pickups here in the US.



Ford trails on this "most sales" graph, at 6 million.

With pickups being so popular here, it will be interesting to see how the sales bar changes once these are electrified.
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agreed. that is how i define it. in my opinion, tesla is the only bev to have reached that level, and no phevs have yet.
but we all have a different definition, including toyota

 

I Think Toyota is a going concern, for almost a century, year over year, a winning formula, especially in bad times. (Not many auto makers are in that club) Comparing to Tesla, with its ability to invent itself overnight, selling its equity, having such small percent of car market and being EV only Manufacturer is not a valid comparison. Tesla can get into big trouble in several ways that Toyota is not exposed too. Its two different markets for at least a few more years yet. I also think Tesla it the best EV Cars for the price in 2019.

 

1> Are you saying all EV sales so far has been 'early-adopters'? (If so, proud member here !! 5 yrs and counting!)

2> This sentence might makes sense to you, john, however,,,,, What 'distraction' are you referring to?
(Can anyone else here interpret this sentence?)

3>Now what are we watching for here?
Toyota's "slow & wide approach"?
To what?

Successfully having an EV for sale and finally entering the Clean Energy Future?

That is the subject of this thread, after all!

 

slow = 20+ years

wide = electrified fleet, one plug in and one coming = slow

2) toyota is doing their best to distract you from thinking about bev's

just pretend that the prior discussions regarding 'you dont have four hours to wait for a charge, or
'no one is knocking on our door asking for a bev' never happened.

 

@john1701a , years ago you defined the term “mass market” as 60,000 units annually.
I gather you define “high volume” differently.

To make it easier for us to understand you, would you please define “high volume”?