Featured Best answer I've seen yet from Toyota about going full EV

The GM plug-ins have battery heaters that keep it warm during those times where it needs heat while plugged in. You can also use the remote or an APP to preheat the cabin.

 

Thanks. I remember reading that you can't plug in a Prime for charging and then use that power to preheat the gas engine once the battery is full. That seemed like a huge missed opportunity to me. Really? I gotta plug it in twice?

 

don't we already have these with bolt and leaf?

 

There's a Nissan dealer near a friend of mine, that has free charging. They have two level 2 AC stations and a CHAdeMO/CCS station. I would imagine they wouldn't have a CCS plug if they didn't want others there.

 

I'll call them a fair start. I think it'll take a few more shots at the target to get it right.

 

Kia, Tesla, Hyundai Electric Cars too. Having liquid thermal management, they also scavenge heat from the electric motors (in addition to resistance Heat) to heat the cabin, much like gas burners do. iirc, on the Nero you can order a heat pump to supplement the other heat sources.
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I plug in my 2020 Prime in at least three times a day. It only costs 12 cents per hour. Now with 1,780 miles, I have only put 2 gallons of gasoline in it.

 

what improvements do you think would jump sales?

 

Never having driven either car, I can only offer a very limited viewpoint. The leaf looks like it needs a little "more" in the sense that I keep hearing about problems related to this or that, and it's often temperature management. I feel like it could be fixed, and is overall closer to the target.

On the other hand the Bolt clearly needs less of something. It's a $20-25k car with a $38k price tag. I don't know what to cut but it needs less content somehow.

 

thats old leaf news from the south, but the rep lives on. both cars are very reasonably priced after all discounts, rebates and tax credits.
they will never save you money though, so the consumer has to want a bev. thats the rub these days.

 

Maybe not the Leaf. It's an air cooled battery. I think its battery heater is like the Primes, for keeping it above freezing, but not getting to optimum temperature.

Many do, well not the engine block, and the ones with air cooled batteries only heat enough to prevent damage in freezing temperatures. How well they work varies.

The EVSE is a limiting factor. With Level 1, these things would have to be done sequentially. The gen1 Volt only preheated the cabin when Level 2 was used. It has been to made to work on Level 1, but depending on outside temperatures, cabin heating might require pulling energy off the battery. Throw in a block heater, and you might have the situation where the block or cabin has cooled off while heating the other. With a PHEV that can charge up in 6 hours on Level 1, many probably wouldn't want to pay for a Level 2 just for engine block heating.

The European 2020 Ioniq and Kona Electrics have an optional battery heater. Don't know it means a more powerful one for colder climes, or that the base system just cools.

 

From where I sit: Neither EV was intended to be a commercial product in their own right. Instead, for Nissan and GM's they are primarily the cost of license to continue selling ICE cars in the current regulatory environment. No wonder that both EV are geared towards meeting the stick-and-carrot requirements rather than satisfying consumers.

IMO the Leaf and the Bolt need to be of the Murano/Equinox size, with the following choices available to the buyer as a minimum: Multiple battery sizes (and perhaps a range extender), available AWD, and advanced battery TMS incl. waste heat management. Plus a voluntary equivalent of what VW is doing through Electrify America to support the fleet.

 

Preheat what? Since EV driving can far outlast engine coolant, that would be a pointless feature. Engine block heating comes from a separate plug anyway. In other words, check your source. Something clearly isn't right with that claim.

You can preheat the cabin (aka "preconditioning") any time you want, regardless of battery level. Without being plugged in, it will draw directly from the battery. And yes, it will dip into HV capacity if called upon. While plugged into 240-volt, it will do a combination of rapid pull from the wall, a little bit of battery, then pull from the wall again. That basically warms up everything using the heat-pump.

There is also the battery-warmer. I'm not actually sure if that operates without being plugged in. But it certainly does work when you are. With temperatures below 0°F parked outside without any protection, mine was kept at a comfortable 39°F last year. That's what the lithium chemistry needs to operate more efficiently. Below freezing, electrical resistance increases quite a bit.

 

• 0-60 mph in 5 seconds
• 75 mi EV range
• 100 kW fast DC charger

Bob Wilson

 

Keeping the price competitive while adding those improvements is the most difficult part of the equation.
Schrödinger equation - Wikipedia
Prius Prime - official prices paid thread | PriusChat
3G Prius Features Explained | PriusChat

 

Yeah this isn't going anywhere until the sticker prices (meaning before tax schemes) are slightly below those of gas cars.

 

Since I haven't been spoiled by Tesla specs yet, and still live happily with Prime specs,
I'd be happy in a Toyota EV with:

50 mile EV EPA rated range
0-60 mph in 9 secs ( wait can the prime already do that sometimes)?
95 mph top EV speed. That might be fun to test the top end of that EV curve.
2 hour L2 - 4 hour L1 charge times
optional equipment:
add an atkinson cycle range extender cold weather heater
inverter coolant heater
traction pack top side and between module block heater.
an array of solar wind turbine and ported body panels
lift kit with aero skirts
adjustable hydraulic suspension
adjustable air suspension

 

My comment was primarily concerning preheating the gas engine block in a PHEV.

I'm glad to hear that the grid tied cabin heating is more widespread than I'd thought. As for integrating the block heater in a PHEV, you seem to have confirmed my worst fear: "Engine block heating comes from a separate plug anyway." It just seems like an unbelievable engineering oversight in a family of cars that has already taken such unusually advanced steps as exhaust heat recovery and thermos bottles. Rankles me a bit that they'd miss such a big opportunity in terms of overall energy management.

Obviously not every user needs it; there's plenty of evidence of people who like to pretend their Prime doesn't even have a gas engine. Maybe Toyota isn't selling many to people who actually wanted a PHEV for use beyond battery range? Anyhow it would be trivial to make its use a menu option in the system they use for the charging preferences and cabin preheat details. It just seems flat out dumb that they didn't provision a line from the charger socket to an underhood connector for an optional block heater.

 

at what price .....
BTW - the 0-60mph time for the Prime is ~ 10sec.
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Not until I know how much I can save with the one that needs 11.5 seconds, tops out at 90 & needs double those charge times.