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alphard

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by donbright, Oct 20, 2019.

  1. donbright

    donbright Active Member

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    I just found out that Toyota has been selling hybrid Minivans all over the world for... well, decades.

    I am kind of outraged.

    Who exactly decides that we can't have the same products as everyone else in the world has access to?
     
  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I think "us" consumers are driving the market decisions by manufactures. Only if more people want a hybrid minivan... then we will have it.
     
  3. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    It is really hard to convince owners that the Jump from 20 to 30 MPG in a larger vehicle saves more gas than the jump from 30 to 50 MPG in a Prius

    12,000 miles a year / 20 MPG = 600 gallons per year
    12,000 miles per year/ 30 MPG = 400 gallons per year
    12,000 miles per year/ 50 MPG = 240 gallons per year

    So 20 to 30 save 200 gallons but 30 to 50 only saves 160 gallons.

    It is still very hard to sell a 30 MPG hybrid, owners do not see it as any advance. It is easier in countries that use Quantity of fuel per Distance, rather than the US method of Distance per Quantity.
     
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  4. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Do you mean the HiJet? I think it's 660cc and only a mild hybrid - been it never got past the Concept stage.

    Japan has many unique vehicles - which likely wouldn't sell here in Australia - yep, they've tried, but most have had limited success back in the '70s and '80s:

    upload_2019-10-21_14-42-13.png upload_2019-10-21_14-44-58.png

    They're mainly only sold in Asia - called Kei cars in Japan.

    Similarly, there are many models in India - as at a couple of years ago only had one Airbag and no ABS - which couldn't be sold elsewhere due to lack of compliance.

    But I'm not aware of any Hybrid Kei cars - there have been some EV variants for about 10 years.

    But there are unique cars TOYOTA make for USA - the very big trucks don't come here, and we have a smaller "HiLux" (still a large vehicle) for our market. Similarly, PRIUS in Australia had a vastly different model and equipment list from USA. We only got Corolla Hybrid hatch - you got the saloon in USA, EU & UK get the Wagon. You got Highlander in Hybrid, we only had petrol. RAV4 previous model - we got Diesel instead of Hybrid.
     
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They might have been just in Japan.

    The fuel economy and cost would have been around that of the Highlander hybrid; not super better than the non-hybrid, while costing much more. Sales were poor, and without the RX hybrid also being made, Toyota could have cancelled the Highlander in the US like they did the Prius v. The minivan segment has not been growing like the SUV one; there is just four companies still offering one in the US.

    These minivans are smaller than American minivans. They are about halfway between the Sienna and Mazda5 in size. The Mazda and other smaller minivans are gone from the US market. Making these hybrids bigger would decrease the fuel economy.

    A new Highlander hybrid, that is more efficient is coming to market. Perhaps that system will make its way into the next Sienna.
     
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  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Consumers. Everyone is going the SUV route. I’ve seen people replace their 10-15 year old car with SUVs as they “finally” can join the crowd of higher seating position.

    Also, I don’t think the American public will enjoy the design of the Alphard or Vellfire. It’s too garish.

    The Estima could work but again, Americans love big cars if they can afford it so an Estima would be too small. I believe it’s a touch smaller than the original Sienna.
     
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  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    For one, our own country's safety regulators, ordained by Congress. New vehicles here must meet certain standards not imposed elsewhere, or frquently different standards.

    With special versioning required for different national or groups of markets, the manufacturers must decide if it is worth their effort and expense to meet each set of different requirements. If they don't expect to sell enough in a particular market, then it isn't worth the cost or the allocation of limited resources.

    Different markets often have different preferences at any given time. Minivans don't seem to be a hot thing in the U.S. now.
     
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  8. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    I didn't spot the ALPHARD - just noticed it in the heading. It's not that mini though. Yes, we've had some "GreyMarket" ones here, and yes, very "Japanese" focused and garish.

    We've had the TARAGO (Estima or Previa) for 35+ years, but it's been replaced by the GRANVIA in the last couple of months - an ugly, boxy, but garish HiAce variant. No sign of a Hybrid though.
    upload_2019-10-21_15-50-45.png
     
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    They’re also sold in select Asian markets.

    I’d love to have the Estima here. Looks cool and futuristic. Good size for people carrying and available in hybrid and E-Four versions.
     
    #9 Tideland Prius, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    We once had it as the Previa until the Sienna came along.
    The current Estima is about a foot shorter than the Sienna. The Alphard is longer than the Estima, with the Lexus version just a couple inches shy of the Sienna. All of them are at least a half foot thinner than the Sienna.

    Minivan sales have been in a steady decline in the US. So while I think Toyota could do a worthwhile, in terms of price increase to MPG increase, hybrid Sienna now, I don't know if they will bother.
    Minivan sales plunge as America's love affair with SUVs continues
     
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  11. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    My coworker has a Chrysler Pacifica plugin hybrid minivan :

    2019 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid - Fuel Efficient Minivan

    It is actually really darn nice. I'm not a fan of Chrysler. However, they really did a great job with this van. Long term reliability remains to be seen but I do like it quite a bit.

    Point being....others are doing it...so it sure seems like there is room for Toyota to do it!
     
  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I concur. Rented a gas Pacifica in Hawaii earlier this year and it was fantastic in carrying 6-7 of us around Maui. It even took all of our checked baggage and some carry-on (a few articles had to go into the passenger compartment but it wasn’t intrusive.).

    Reliability remains to be seen but at first glance, it’s a well thought-out minivan. We had the Limited version with the dual moonroofs and leather seating and vacuum cleaner.