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Featured World's first hybrid flex vehicle, the New Corolla is launched in Brazil.

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Diego Sausen, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. Diego Sausen

    Diego Sausen Member

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    World's first hybrid flex vehicle, the New Corolla is launched in Brazil.

    Novo Toyota Corolla 2020: Impressões ao dirigir

    It caught my attention the difference in consumption between gasoline (16km / l) and ethanol (10km / l).
     
    #1 Diego Sausen, Sep 6, 2019
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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Great - clear cut rainforest, so folks can grow crops on nutrient-poor land, & turn the crop into fuel. Then when the nutrient-poor soil can no longer support crops, move on & cut down more rainforest. Then repeat. Toyota supports this? Makes their brown coal reformed hydrogen scheme almost look palatable.
    .
     
    #2 hill, Sep 6, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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  3. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Well..."plain old" gas comes from million-year sequestration...
    At least this time someone cares about fuel efficiency, all other manufacturers have nothing to play with, except for battery eletric cars, which are still unsuitable for low income countries.
     
    #3 telmo744, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm pretty sure ethanol has been Brazilian policy for a lot longer than this car. I'd even done some investigation of ethanol:
    E85 study, baseline | PriusChat

    In my study, the wholesale price of ethanol is slightly better than that of gasoline in a cost per mile. However, the retail price of E85 is upside down which made conversion to E85 impractical. I was able to confirm our Prius can run on up to E50 without throwing a harmless code about 'fuel trim' but it made no economic sense.

    My understanding is the Brazilian clear-cutting is to plant soybeans and other crops. Apparently the market for soybeans and other former USA agricultural products has opened up. So Brazil is increasing their agricultural production. Meanwhile, USA farmers can now get subsidies to cover their loss.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #4 bwilson4web, Sep 9, 2019
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  5. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Brazil needs ethanol for energy. They aren’t going to get it done without. They have some room to improve ethanol production practices.

    Japanese industry knows a lot about making do with materials on hand...
     
    #5 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Sep 9, 2019
  6. Diego Sausen

    Diego Sausen Member

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    This is an interesting article about the origin of alcohol use in the automotive market in Brazil.

    Who lived the early 1970s in the state of São Paulo should remember: when traveling by car, you are faced with huge tracts of land occupied by crops of beans, coffee, corn, soybeans, citrus fruits etc. on farms out of sight. It was a variety and incredible strength.

    And then, in 1975, came a massive state program labeled "National Alcohol" or simply Pro-Alcohol . And everything changed.

    The program was an initiative of the Brazilian government to intensify the production of fuel ethanol to replace gasoline. The world oil crisis, which began in 1973, has made the price of the product stayed extremely high and passed to have great weight in imports. Consequently, the government decided to "boost" the production of alcohol in order to replace the use of gasoline.

    Beginning in November 1975, the government has offered various tax incentives and mostly bank loans - through its state-owned banks - the interest below the usual market rates for sugar cane producers and the automotive industries develop cars running on ethanol.

    In the first decade, the goal seemed to be achieved: consumers now prioritize cars to alcohol, especially by being able to supply on weekends, which was sealed for gasoline (yes, it was forbidden by law stations open on weekends to sell gasoline ).

    In addition, the difference in price per liter was fixed across the country, with alcohol costing 65% gasoline , which caused the car to alcohol were artificially advantageous in terms of cost per kilometer (alcohol yields, on average, 70% of gasoline, therefore, any price ratio below 70% is advantageous to use of alcohol).

    As a result of this artificial stimulus, the production of alcohol in Brazil shot : the 1975-76 period was 600 million liters; the 1979-80 period was 3.4 billion, and peaked in 1986-87, 12.3 billion liters.

    Who is the branch can confirm: in the 1980s, car sales alcohol dominated the Brazilian automotive market. Of 6,524,014 passenger cars produced between 1980 and 1990, no less than 4,614,402 ( equivalent to 70.7% ) were alcohol.

    Because of these artificial incentives granted by the government, there was the obvious: all those bean plantations, coffee, corn, soybeans, citrus fruits etc. They disappeared and turned into a monoculture of sugar cane, from which is extracted ethanol.

    That is, there was a profound change not only in the engineering of car engines, but also in the country's agricultural landscape.


    Mises Brasil - O Pró-Álcool, os carros “flex” e as trágicas consequências da intervenção estatal na nossa gasolina
     
    #6 Diego Sausen, Sep 9, 2019
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  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Cost per mile and mpg are necessarily inextricably linked. How can it be that a cost per mile analysis flies in the face of other's data? .
    How Does Ethanol Impact Fuel Efficiency?
    iow, If you experience a 2% 3% price reduction, ethanol has to have no less a loss - than the 2%- 3% loss in fuel economy - just to be in an on par scenario. But according to the article above & other similar articles on the topic mileage drops more than the savings - & that still doesn't account for extraneous losses harder to calculate, like the loss of rainforest.
    .
     
    #7 hill, Sep 9, 2019
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    First start with the USA Energy Information for wholesale prices. Assume we have a 50 MPG car:
    • $1.65 / 50 ~= $0.033 / mi :: NY Harbor
    • $1.57 / 50 ~= $0.031 / mi :: Gulf Coast
    • $2.08 / 50 ~= $0.042 / mi :: Los Angeles
    • ethanol has 30% less energy than gas so 50 MPG becomes 35 MPG
    • $1.30 / 35 ~= $0.037 / mi :: ethanol
    So NY Harbor and Gulf Coast gain nothing from ethanol. However, Los Angeles gains from ethanol, $0.005 / mi. I am loath to use a percentage savings because percentages can be misleading. Back of envelope, about a 11% gasoline savings ... in Los Angeles.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #8 bwilson4web, Sep 9, 2019
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