Corolla Hybrid - Change my mind

Maybe yes, maybe no?

 

Once you drive, it’s hard to turn back.

Particularly if you have an itch for change.

That’s where a strong, thrifty CFO comes in.

 

I'd like a Corolla Liftback Prime in Prius green. With a spare tire and rear wiper. With all the high tech goodies please.

If I wanted a Dodge Charger, I'd get one. But a Prius imitation of a Charger won't sell to either the Charger or the Prius market segments.

I obviously don't exist in Toyota's view of the world.

 

Hope you are right. Not sure it will happen as quickly as we hope.

 

It can if you count mild hybrids and keep the pressure up on fuel economy standards.

 

I'm not in that "we". For me a hybrid vehicle is still the most attractive option. A plug-in hybrid is a close second, but I don't like the extra complexity of plug-in strategies, and definitely don't like compromised cargo capacity and/or lack of emergency spare. An electric vehicle with current range and charging times is not of interest.

 

I was looking at one before I bought the Prime. I wanted the TSS 2.0 that the new corolla comes with. I could be wrong, but Hybrid is only available in one of the lower trim levels. So no seat heater, for example. I commute 90-100 miles a day, and have a bad back, heat is a must. The Corolla was cheaper, but Prime came with about $8800 of rebates for me which actually made it cheaper.

I don't know what else the corolla is missing, I stopped looking after I didn't see heated seats.

 

You're right, the hybrid is only available in LE for the US. Europe gets a selection of trims, and also a hatchback and wagon.

 

Charging time is a big one for me too. I can't see all-electrics going truly mass market until they deal with that.
The electrics are starting to get to ranges that are OK for me.
Personally, I'm sorry we couldn't find a plug in hybrid that met both our needs. I think we would have gone for that.

 

Don’t you already “plug in” your 2010?

Just think of doing this to the big battery versus the little one you do now.

And you get at least 3x the gas mileage as you do now.

The space you get used to.

 

"Mass market" is a nebulous term. The Model 3 sold over 100k last year, and will do so again. That is mass market by some definitions.

The majority of households in the US have more than one car. When the Leaf first arrived, it was estimated that 40% of households could have it work as one of their cars. That is a lot of potential miles switched to electric. Today's longer range BEVs just increase the number of potential households that could make the switch.

Since those cars are charged at home, the charge time there is only a factor for those with long commutes out side the norm of the rest of the population. Public charging and the time for it is only a factor for those without access to some type of home charging, and those that want to move away from ICE. Until the infrastructure can support their needs on a mass scale, there is still a large potential market to support BEV sales.

 

Trollbait--I can't say you're wrong about any of this. But by "Mass market" I mean the kind of market that results in 50% or so of vehicles to be electric, as is predicted for 2040 or so. I can't see that happening without dealing with the charging time issue, because lots of people do take longer trips than a single battery charge or gas tank fill will support.
It would not surprise me to see a breakthrough in materials science in the next 10-20 years that would allow much faster charging, though I have no idea what that might be.
Another potential disrupter (in the positive sense) would be the development of large fleets of truly self-driving electric cars that change the ownership model for motor vehicles. If the charging cycle goes on "behind the scenes" outside the view of riders, well maybe that will lead to a much higher percentage of EVs more quickly than I imagine.

 

You seem to be making an error that many with concerns about, or are even flat out against, EVs make.

You aren't considering PHEVs. They are part of the EV group.

Even with just 25 miles of range, many miles driven by Prime owners are shifted to electricity. It is probably safe to say that for most of them, over half their annual miles is in EV mode. Some are at over 90% electric. The utilization rate of batteries in PHEVs are higher than in BEVs, since BEV drivers need a battery sized for worse case conditions to meet their needs, which leads to unused capacity most of the time.

PHEVs do have compromises in comparison to ICEs(including hybrids) and BEVs. Space loss is a biggee. Those will improve as batteries improve, and the car industry adapts their design thinking to the new technology. Cars currently mount the engine in the front. This mean the exhaust needs to be plumbed to the rear. The heat from that is not good for batteries, so they need to be isolated from the exhaust. Then the platforms currently used for PHEVs aren't really designed for big batteries.

I see future PHEVs being like the i3 REx; a BEV with an added range extender, as opposed to a hybrid with a bigger battery. ICE in the rear means exhaust isn't in the way of the battery, so that can be larger. Series hybrids are less efficient at highway speeds than other types, but annual fuel use for the car is mostly on infrequently taken long trips, so the total amount of fuel used is less than a non-plug in, even an efficient one. The series configuration also means adopting different range extender technology(fuel cells, AL-air batteries, etc.) is easier.

So for those that find Supercharger level charging speeds too slow in the future, there will be options that let them keep the speed of liquid fuel refueling, while still having the majority of their miles powered by the grid.

 

Interesting points. I am hoping that, in the end, we can ditch the ICE, but I see where you are going about plug-ins.

 

As a current Prius C owner I too am convinced of the reliability of the hsd. I am in serious shopping mode as I’d like to get slightly more comfort out of my only car. The current 2020 Prius meets many of my needs, however safety scores are a little lower than Corolla. Prius doesn’t have TSS 2.0. Additionally, as a vehicle that seems to be “hidden” in a world of SUVs, I would really miss the integrated mirror turn signals. Signals truly seem to help visibility. The fact that Prius C and Corolla have traditional shift levers is also a huge win. Honestly would love Corolla hybrid hatchback in USA.

 

Rav4 hybrid. Snow and AWD. Turn signals that light up on the mirrors. SUV form factor for height. Traditional auto shift lever. Only thing I can think of that is unconventional is the parking brake. Hill-holding available. TSS 2 yes. MPG not up there with a hatchback but haven't seen the hatch that could have carried my load today to the recycle place on a multi-stop trip. A utility versus max MPG trade-off. My second Toyota hybrid. Currently 3 in the family.

Other comments here.

 

RAV4 hybrid on my shortlist. Bigger than I need, but all the things I like!