1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Issue with MPG

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Luklyz, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. Luklyz

    Luklyz Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    4
    6
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three


    I have a 2010 Prius and having an issue with my gas mileage. I tried everything but I can't get anything more than 42 mpg (display) at the pump is 2-3mpg lower. My car has 142000 miles.

    Here's more information about the car:

    I cleaned maf, map, egr. Oil is a synthetic 0w-20. Spark plugs changed by the previous owner with iridium @129k.

    Brand new brakes front and back. No drag or sticking.

    Accessory battery is from 2017.

    It doesn't matter how I drive my gas mileage is around 40-42 and can't get anything better than this.

    Before this car, I had a gen ii prius and I was getting around 48-52 with the best result of 61.


    Not sure what to do or how to improve the mpg. Any suggestions?
     
  2. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,257
    15,491
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Welcome to Prius Chat (y).

    I’ve found that tires pressures should be checked and the egr circuit can cause dips in mpg;).

    Start there and let us know what you find(y).
     
    #2 Raytheeagle, Apr 1, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
    Pluggo and Grit like this.
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,671
    39,221
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    How about the intake manifold, did you clean it? The EGR dumps into it and there's small diameter passages at each intake port?

    Also, you completely cleaned the EGR, all the way back to connection to exhaust manifold? Stupid question, but a few people have just cleaned the pipe, called it done.

    Have you cleaned the throttle body? Probably...

    Try a fuel injector cleaner, one with PolyEtherAmine (PEA)? Techron for example.


    Did the drop in mpg begin around the time of the brake job? You say no drag, but try this:

    Raise the rear of the car (with front wheels chocked), and (with parking brake released, obviously) try giving the wheels a good spin. They should spin a couple of revolutions after you let go. The disc brake system imposes minor drag, but nothing serious.

     
  4. Luklyz

    Luklyz Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    4
    6
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    My tire pressure is around 36psi.
    I did inspect the EGR when I got the car 2 years ago. Everything looked clear, even the EGR cooler. I didn't pull the intake at that time.

    I just order the PCV valve and intake gasket and I will be doing some work this weekend, along with tearing down the to EGR.

    I just checked the wheels and they move freely. 4-5 revolution per spin.

    As far as the brakes. the answer is no. I got this car @ 129k with a rear brakes issue and the car was getting 25mpg. Someone at the chain brake shop installed wrong brake pads. it resulted in horrible angled pad wear ( within 70 miles from the installation, brand new rotors and pads were shot). The chain store said that there is no warranty for the brake work, and most likely something is bend and they refused to work on the car. Former Owner went to the dealer and the dealer gave them a quote $3500 to replace every single component of the rear brakes.
    This is when I came in and got the car. It took me 1 hour per wheel to hammer out brake pads from the brackets. Installed new rotors and pads and put everything together. 14k miles later everything is working good. The MPG went from 25 to 42, its been like that for the last 2 years.

    I will do some work this weekend and I will report back.
    Thank you for suggestions.
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,671
    39,221
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Rear brake beveled pads are due to mis-aligned piston, in my experience. The piston's cross pattern has to be oriented like an "X" at reassembly, and be well seated thus, so it can't rotate.

    Applying the parking brake will attempt to rotate the piston. The pin on the brake pad backing plate is designed to lock in between the spokes of the cross pattern, prevent the piston from rotation.

    But if the piston is mis-rotated to begin with, or not well seated in the X orientation, the piston will can rotate, and end up bearing on just the pin on the backing plate, causing the beveled wear.

    This maybe is not a problem now, but just for your info.

    More in the attached.
     

    Attached Files:

    #5 Mendel Leisk, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  6. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    1,953
    1,797
    0
    Location:
    Southern MN
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    II
    Since the car has 142,000 miles in it....there is a whole lot of maintenance you could do on top of what you have already done.

    I did a whole bunch of work on my high mileage Prius v (wagon) last summer and posted a list of what was done here :

    Hi all, new Prius v owner | Page 10 | PriusChat

    This list might be a good reference of some other things you could try.

    Have you replaced the transmission fluid?
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  7. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,790
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    First, make sure that you are looking at an MPG number that gets reset occasionally......like for each trip or done manually with each tank of gas.

    Once a long term average gets established, it takes a REALLY drastic change to something to make that number move.
     
  8. Luklyz

    Luklyz Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    4
    6
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    This past weekend I took the intake and EGR cooler off. The cooler wasn’t too dirty. Before cleaning I was able to see the light through it.
    After multiple soaking and multiple rinses with the hose, it was clean. I was able to see the spikes in the fins, and all ports were open. I think the cooler was replaced in the past. It was way to clean to start with, and I end up with clean stainless steel metal on both ends.
    Changed the PVC valve and intake gasket. Cleaned all EGR passages in the manifold.

    Yesterday, I took the car for a 100mile trip and my mpg was around 45.5 ( reset at the beginning). The trip included mix driving where 60% was driving 55 mph. A little better.
    Last night I added injector cleaner. When the intake was off I did inspect valves and everything looked pretty clean. So will see.

    As far as maintenance, here is a list of things that were done in last 13k miles ( I got this car @130k, now is 143k):

    - Replaced Engine Air Filter and Cabin Air Filter (Done @ 130k)
    - Replaced 12V Battery (Done By Previous Owner. Battery is from 2017)
    - Cleaned Hybrid battery Fan ( Not done will be doing this next weekend).
    - Cleaned MAF and MAP (Done @ 130k).
    - Changed Transmission Fluid ( Done @ 135k)
    - Changed Engine coolant (Done @ 135k)
    - Changed Inverter Coolant (Done @ 135k)
    - Changed PCV valve & tube ( Done@ 143k)
    - Changed Spark plugs (Done By Previous Owner Battery @126k)
    - EGR cooler removal and cleaning, EGR tube cleaning ( Done@ 143k)
    - Cleaned MAP (Done @ 143k).
    - Intake manifold removal and cleaning ( Done@ 143k)
    - Rear Brakes (Done @ 130k)
    - Front Brakes - new pads (Done @ 130k)

    I reset my trip every fill-up and I calculate manually every gas tank. mpg is as follow:
    Winter – Display 34-38 mpg – at pump 29 – 35 mpg
    Spring - Display 40-45 mpg – at pump 38 – 42 mpg ( rarely using AC)
    Summer - Display 39-42 mpg – at pump 36 – 42 mpg (using AC)
    Fall - Display 40-45 mpg – at pump 38 – 42 mpg ( rarely using AC)

    The mpg at the pump is always 2-3 mpg lower than a displayed.

    Before this one, I had a gen 2 and it was able to get 48-50mpg without trying too hard. With this one, without trying I will get 42 and with trying and annoying everybody I’m getting 44.

    A few weeks ago I drove my friend 2016 Prius, and I was getting 55 mpg so I don’t think it’s my driving skills. Just saying. ;)
     
    RMB likes this.
  9. Luklyz

    Luklyz Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    4
    6
    0
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    ** Update**

    The car is fixed, and I'm getting 55-57 mpg on 88 octane gas (15% ethanol).

    I replaced two things: spark plugs and a MAF sensor.

    Spark plugs.
    As I mentioned before, spark plugs were replaced by the previous owner at the local mechanic shop ( have paperwork). The spark plugs were Autolite iridium, and they looked terrible. Very bad corona at the base. And they were gapped to up 0.1". The average was 0.09". Yes, this is the correct number.
    Installed new Denso spark plugs, gapped and the car is running better. A lot smoother. The transition between gas and electric not noticeable. The mpg went up around 2-3 mpg. I was getting 45-46mpg on the 100-mile trip.

    MAF Sensor.
    So, I was messing around with Elm327 and Car Scanner App, and I noticed that when the car is off, the MAF reading is negative (-0.25g/s) without any air flow.
    I installed a new sensor from eBay. Current reading is -0.16g/s. The car was running fine. No change in the car operation. No change in car power. But a big improvement in mpg. First 100-mile trip; 55-57 mpg without really trying. Next 100-mile trip; hypermiling and grandpa driving ;) and I was able to get mpg to 65 (display).

    As far as MAF, I am not sure if the negative reading is normal for this engine. Can someone verify this?

    At next fill up, I will put 87 gas to see If I can reach 70 mpg with hypermiling and grandpa driving ;).

    I want to thank everyone for all their help and suggestions.
     
    TheeWood, mikey_t, CR94 and 2 others like this.
  10. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    6,173
    4,078
    1
    Location:
    Wilkes Land
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Your next problem could be using E15, manual says no higher than E10. Expecting all the gen 4 people pounce on me again that it’s fine for E15 and that their oil cap says okay to use, while posting it in the gen 3 forum ha.
     
  11. winglik

    winglik Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    26
    6
    0
    Location:
    NYC
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Interesting. I have the same issue with mine. I pretty much do the same maintenance at 150k miles. I only get 45MPG on average. Never know the MAF sensor can cause that much difference in MPG. I will check reading with tech stream and try to clean the MAF sensor. Hopefully I can get to 50mpg again.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,671
    39,221
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Here's some Repair Manual info. What looks simple to me is to measure ohms at the connector prongs, with the sensor removed. You can also check "g/sec" value, with Techstream, with the sensor installed and the car on.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. AzWxGuy

    AzWxGuy Weather Guy

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    1,003
    498
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius
    Model:
    Limited
    I feel the need to say something about the iridium spark plugs. Iridium is a very hard (Mohs 6.5) but brittle metal, and to my knowledge the plugs come gapped from the factory and should NOT be adjusted. You wouldn't want any of that bouncing around in your combustion chamber.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  14. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    2,233
    1,596
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Concur with that. In my experience, every set of iridium plugs that I have installed (five cars in the last two years) have come properly gapped from the factory. I gave them a quick check with a gage and installed them.

    It is common for the gap to increase as the plug ages and the electrode wears. I have pulled out plugs that started at 0.040" and ended up at 0.80", and this is when the plugs were not in service longer than the factory recommended change interval.
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,671
    39,221
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    The iridium is in the centre electrode, not the bit you bend? That said, I'm pretty sure I've read: the plugs come properly gapped, don't try fine tuning them. There's no harm in checking the gap though, just to verify (trust but verify).
     
    AzWxGuy likes this.
  16. AzWxGuy

    AzWxGuy Weather Guy

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    1,003
    498
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius
    Model:
    Limited
    Mr. Internet was nice enough to tell me that Bosch makes a "double" iridium because of course they do. Always a step ahead. The picture of their product looks like something you would shoot into space. Probably would outlast the engine. So yes, not the Nippon Denso brand, and yes again trust but verify. If you did need to adjust the gap you should do so carefully and not pry against the center pin.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  17. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    6,421
    3,410
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    They all come gapped. But you should always check to see if they are gapped to what YOUR
    engine should be.
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,671
    39,221
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I think auto and spark plug manufacturers work pretty closely, settle on a plug and gap that's gonna work. I can't recall ever getting a plug that wasn't preset to the spec'd gap, and I don't think that's by chance.

    Still, I do check them.
     
  19. MegaPrius101

    MegaPrius101 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2018
    57
    31
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    I’ll have to look into my MAF sensor as well to improve my mpg ..

    My car is at 160k now and just started hyper-milling after watching YT video recently and I’m starting to see the huge jump in mpg..my spark plugs are original and I’ve noticed the transition from electric to gas (while parked) can be somewhat “harsh” or not as smooth as before.. can this be a spark plug only issue or a multitude of things? I take very good care of my car (driving wise and mechanically)..

    Also got to clean the complete EGR system.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,671
    39,221
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Plugs were supposed to be changed at 120K IIRC

    Yes.