Featured Green Car Reports article

More armchair engineering?

 

Well, as an engineer myself (though not an automotive one), I do fall under the 'everything can always be improved' mindset. Also, 'good enough' is a pretty common outcome for many engineers. That much space on the sides and below the battery screams a 'good enough' battery design solution to me.

 

But it likely isn't that simple. Between the incentives and discounts, the cost of a Prime is about that of a Prius for many, some even less. Being cheap, and having HOV access in places, can do a lot for over looking negatives.

It also meant many of its sales were at the expense of the Prius, which likely meant less profit for Toyota.

The hypothesis from hints in the reveal threads is that the Prime originally had a smaller battery; something along the size of the PiPs. That pack likely fit into the spare tire well. Done with the design, Toyota showed it to Toyota USA who said it would never sell with that short EV range here. So the engineers were left scrambling to get the EV range up before the release.

 

At the target price point of the vehicle, "good enough" is what they are shooting for. It has to be constructable, reliable, affordable and timely. It's a consumer automobile, not a Mars lander.

 

Does that make the Ioniq a spacecraft?

 

i would say it is a deal breaker for some. i can't say how many, we'll never know. at least one

sales numbers are relative. 46,000 may look good to some, others may think they're bad.

toyota sells enough to keep them happy with their carb credits. when the don't, the $5,000. rebates come back.

but tesla sales are increasing. all other plug ins are going backwards

 

If you put a big enough booster under it, anything can be a spacecraft.

 

Not having a fifth seat wasn't a deal breaker for many, but it was enough of an impact for Toyota to fix it. There is no way the loss cargo space isn't seen as a negative by the many. It just isn't as easy of a fix.

Most plug ins still get the full federal tax credit. We'll see the normal spike in sales at the end of the year, which is also when the manufacturers will feel more pressure to meet CAFE.

 

but will those spikes match last years? can't see why they would, based on 2019 to date

 

As soon as I got the car home from the dealer, the tonneau cover went into storage in the garage. It's pretty worthless and gets in the way. I can carry a lot of stuff in that car without the tonneau cover installed.

 

The entire car market is losing sales. Model lines were being cancelled, and factories closed in anticipation of this down turn. Properly judging how plug ins are doing requires looking at how they are selling in comparison to the overall market. Being down less than traditional cars would be a good thing.

And you could hold even more in a Prius without the tonneau cover.

I rarely used such in my hatchbacks when the cover didn't rise with the hatch, but some people like them for keeping goods out of sight. For them, the lost space of the Prime could be a bigger deal.

 

not tesla

prime is down more than a third, not sure about gassers

 

Update: Tesla's Epic Rise To #1 Captured In This Stunning Moving Chart
Most plug-ins have been sold by tesla and gm which will be down to $1875 of the government tax credits in the US in Q4. This probably will help honda, toyota, and bmw sell phevs but I doubt there will be any spike in nissan or ford as nissan is still competing with the model 3 and ford seems to be in transition.

Absolutely it is a vestige of coming from the liftback. who knows maybe they improved things for the 2020 a little more. Still plenty of cargo room in the prime, but hope they do an improved redesign.

 

Don't know why, but Carssalesbase only has the January numbers for the Prius in 2019. That month is down 62% compared to last year's. The Prime is down 25%. The Liftback's annual sales have only gone down since 2012. The Prime's climbed from 2017 to 2018. 2019 is looking to be around 2017, but it should be better than any year of the PiP's.
Toyota Prius liftback US car sales figures
Toyota Prius Plug-in hybrid US car sales figures

Tesla's sales are growing, but the figures for this year are still lower than what they sold at the end of last year.
Tesla US car sales figures

While car sales are shrinking in general, plug ins are growing.

 

My tonneau has been in the house since the car was 2 days old.

Boot space - (trunk or hatch). For many uses, height isn't a consideration. You come from the shops, and there's a box in there already - you need room to stand 6 shopping bags in. Having height is of no help - you need " floor area". So, from that point of view, a PRIUS with a full size spare (eg Middle East) or a PRIME - has the same "area" usable as a model with no spare tyre and 3 or 4" lower.

That's where Corolla Hatch went wrong - the footprint of the boot is the same whether you buy the Petrol model or the Hybrid which doesn't have a spare tyre, but has a lower boot floor - but in reality, no bigger for day-to-day use.

Yes, there are times when height matters, like suitcases, TV sets - but for day to day use, you want "area" to toss kid's schoolbags, garden tools, potplants, shopping - not much of which you want to pile on top of each other.

 

pip cost more and never got a $5,000. rebate or $4,500. tax credit, or many state credits.

you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

if you consider prime sales down more than a third to date from 2018 to be a good thing, toyota will probably agree with you

 

Why would this be? What interest might Toyota have in losing money?

 

they make money by selling less if they don't need carb credits. prime is not a money making venture in its own right

 

If they have already built them, they are certainly interested in selling them.

If recent sales trends continue, I don't see the Prius platform (including Prime) lasting more than a few years. At some point you close the production line for a model that sold less than 50K units last year (Prius only). If the sales don't pick up with the AWD option, it's just a matter of time. Prius V - dead. Prius C - dead. Prius - on life support.

Either way, no skin off my back. I already have my Prime and won't be in the market again for at least 10 years.