Featured For Toyota, hybrids become a tougher sell

that's true, but all vehicles have gotten noticeably larger. good example being a honda civic, which is now the size of an accord in the mid 90s-2000s. same thing can be said of the highlander when it first came out. it is basically the same size now as the current rav 4. i wish they would go back to making smaller & smarter packages.

I still don't understand why Honda would make an insight hybird and not have a hatchback or wagon design of some kind for utility. makes zero sense and to me, is less competitive with the Prius.

 

Indeed. The new 19 Rav4 Hybrid is a good choice in suv/crossover territory, no doubt. If you can find one, the only issue I have in Minneapolis is actually finding one to test drive, let alone buy sight unseen.+ here in twin cities, the leasing for them is absurdly high.

 

Consider the capabilities of past hybrid systems, that isn't a surprise.
Ford is using a Parallel hybrid for the F150, and the Tundra will likely get the RWD system that is in the Lexus LS.

The generation cycle for the Tacoma is around 10 years, and 2016 was the first model year of the current gen. If the next redesign gets pushed up, 2021 would be the earliest, but not likely
The Tundra hasn't had a redesign since the 2007MY. It is past due.

Because they have a CR-V hybrid coming.

 

Except Toyota considers the Tundra to be now competing with the F250 or 350. The Tacoma is now the size of the F150.

 

That sounds like rationalization for poorer than expected sales.
I know it uses heavier duty components, but that also increases the price. The Tundra was once a nice truck, being practical and efficient for the class. Then it became a big FSP, that didn't have a diesel option to truly compete with the 2500+ pick ups. The rumor is that the hybrid will be a twin turbo, so it might still be a FSP.

The Tacoma is the size of the Ranger. They only compare in size to the F150 with standard cab. Add the larger cab to be equipped like the midsize trucks, and the F150's wheelbase becomes over a foot and a half longer.

For those wanting a true compact pick up. Ford is planning a unibody one based on the Focus platform.
Ford Considers Compact Unibody Pickup Truck for the U.S. | Automobile Magazine

 

The T100 was the 3/4 sized predecessor of the Tundra.Toyota realized the mistake and released the Tundra as a full sized pickup with either an 8 foot bed & regular cab or a 6 foot bed with extended (suicide door) cab. I have the latter.

 

know your market
.

 

I seem to have heard that before.

 

The buyers have been speaking. Those who care about emissions are buying BEV, those who don't, business as usual. What paradigm shift are you seeing?

Mike

 

If you care about emissions and don't have anywhere or don't want to charge?

Those that care about emissions are minority, alternative drivetrains must prove them selfs in many other areas, for general public to adopt them and that takes time. BEV will take even more time to adopt than some might think.

As for the Hybrid price premium in my Country:
RAV4 2WD 2.0 MT - €4,200 - €4,700
RAV4 AWD 2.0 MT - €4,700 - €5,100
Lexus UX - €4,000
Corolla 1.2t MT vs. 1,8 hybrid - €3,200 - €3,400

Quite a big price premium, Toyota does offer €2,600 discount on hybrids, but there is also a discount on normal versions (don't know how much). Yet, more than 50% Toyota sales in Europe are Hybrids, how come? Fuel price? At current prices it would take around 150k km to break even, so it can't be the fuel saving only.

 

From the article & Toyota motor's GM;

Really? For one - how is mister Hollis's statement NOT hypocritically 2-faced.
For one, gen 1 & Gen 2 Prius were criticized for not being profitable, but rather instead, just a phony green wash. One has to ask mr. Hollis, why is it okay for the competition to build EV's without profit, but Toyota gives itself a hall pass for at least a ½ decade of hybrid unprofitability? Isn't that the very nature of all new tech, that it's expensive up front, then gets used in lots of other platforms - & eventually generates profit?
Secondly - he whines about why are they are getting so much attention. Could it be, because they can be higher-powered/torque - even more efficient than hybrids, and smog free?
Thirdly & most damnable, mr. Hollis rails on how if EV's didn't have subsidies, he questions whether there would be any demand? Even tho the hydrogen cars that they build have WAY less demand? & way higher subsidies? And he wants to use that as a rationale? Has he compared Mirai sales against Model 3?
Wow.
.

 

Though it was a full size, the first Tundra was the smallest of the class. It was also the most efficient. Personally, those attributes are what drew me to it, and what made a better truck for home owners. The relatively higher prices meant it wasn't going to have a big draw with those buying work trucks.

The second Tundra became the biggest of the class, and also the least efficient, which was bad because gas prices soon shot up. Marketing it as a 2500 class, meant that market likely viewed it as the 'smallest' of options. I bet this market has a larger percentage of people buying trucks for actual work, and the Tundra comes across as a 1500 truck trying to do more than it should. The other notable segment of buyers of these trucks are diesel fan boys that can't get them elsewhere, and Tundra never got that option.

Which is why PHEV and BEV sales have been growing faster than hybrids. They give performance in addition to efficiency, and to ability to divorce oneself from fossil fuels.

Are those example prices for diesels? I'm guessing not since I think Toyota cancelled all of theirs. Diesels still are popular because of efficiency and fuel prices, despite having a premium. Dieselgate gave them a black mark, and a boost to hybrid sales. Without a diesel option, more people will pick a hybrid from Toyota.

Forget hydrogen and FCEVs. The Prius has had government incentives in Japan since its introduction, and still had them when the PiP was released there. And like plug ins, hybrids have benefited from incentives in the US in the past, including HOV access in California.

 

did he mention the $4,500. prime tax credit? or how they had to do a $5,000. rebate to sell them in the northeast?
or how dealers had to discount them even more to sell them? would a $20,000. prime advanced be profitable for toyota?

 

What relevance does that have looking forward, knowing there have been upgrade?

It's a rather blatant disregard for the bigger picture too. Focus on micro means you will not see macro.

 

you mean like saying bev's aren't profitable?

 

Some usefull data of Toyota sales:
Sales, Production, and Export Results | Sales, Production, and Export Results | Profile | Company | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

On the right side there are detailed reports, one particular is interesting for this topic: "Sales of HV and FCV"

In first four months of 2019, Toyota sold 607,895 HEVs, up 12% YoY. Also interesting is that we are hearing of declining auto sales, but looking at data Toyota is still ramping up production, even though the sales marginally up. I didn't find hybrid production (only sales), but I'm guessing if they are ramping up in general, then also hybrid production is up more than 12%.

On global market the title of this topic does not apply, it may be true for the US, but certainly not for the world market.

 

About the break even period (considering 3000eur premium):

[Auris 1.2T against 1.8hybrid]

Gasoline consumption: Toyota - Auris - Spritmonitor.de

(6,75)

Gasoline consumption: Toyota - Auris Hybrid - Spritmonitor.de

(5,31)

[current price 1.5eur/litre]

Gives 140,000 kms, less than 100k miles, only at the pump (in Europe).

 

I agree. The sales force at dealers don't know how to sell Hybrids. There are so many selling points. So many ways to dismiss the "lack of power" rumors that still prevail. Even Audi and Jaguar have electric vehicles and their commercials push "adrenaline".