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Featured Toyota Believes Fuel Cell Prices Will Match Hybrids

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Tideland Prius, May 27, 2019.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    That is why I play the game with the lowest, house odds, making only four bets diluting the house advantage with true odds:
    • "DON'T PASS BAR" or "PASS LINE" - $5 bet has 1.40-1.41% house odds
    • "DON'T COME" or "COME" - $5 bet has 1.40-1.41% house odds
    • Lay or put $30 odds - true odds, this reduces the house advantage on the $35 to 0.20% ( (1/7) * 1.41%)
    This stretches out my time at the table for free beverages and the entertainment of being with the craps table crowd. So the Tunica visit cost $3 while the Vicksburg visit paid $79. FYI, I built my own craps simulator a long, long time ago and used it to extensively test my craps table play(*).

    Bob Wilson

    *
    RULE 1 - practice playing craps with a home computer before entering casino. WARNING: some computer craps simulators have bugs and at least one was 'too' positive.

    Place a minimum, $5, "DON'T PASS BAR" bet. This has the highest probability of a loss, the House advantage. On all subsequent rolls, it has the lowest House advantage.

    <Someone throws the dice>

    If it is still there after the roll, add $30 odds on this bet. Then bet $5 on the "COME" area.

    <Someone throws the dice>

    If they are still there after the roll, add $30 odds on this bet. Then bet $5 on the "DON'T COME" area.

    <Someone throws the dice>

    If that bet is still on the table, add $30 odds on this bet. Then bet $5 on the "DON'T COME" area.

    <Someone throws the dice>

    . . . If the "COME" bet hits, collect your winnings and place another $5 bet followed by $30 odds after the next roll.
    . . . If a "DON'T COME" bet loses, place another $5 "DON'T COME" bet followed by $30 odds after the next roll.
    . . . If a 7 comes out on a roll, graciously pick up your winnings.
    . . . Always make sure your odds are working (i.e., still in play.)

    RULE 1 - play a craps simulator on a home computer before going to a casino. Make sure you understand how to play the game.
     
  2. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Industrial hydrogen can be made a few ways; the most common is with a steam reformer and natural gas. So it's most often made in plants (refineries) that are already handling a lot of natural gas.

    There's no reason you couldn't electrolyze it out of water powered by one (big) solar panel and then compress and chill it with power from another (big) solar panel.

    I feel like this gets overlooked a lot.
     
  3. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    My slightly modified Rule 1 - stay out of casinos.
     
  4. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I actually saw a PEM electrolyzer that could produce 3000psi H2 directly.
     
  5. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    The water has to be very pure - so there is the added expense of purification. Navy submarines make oxygen from seawater, and H2 is a byproduct that is disposed of. Seawater > evaporator distiller > deionization system > Oxygen Generator (a very high $$ item) > oxygen to storage > H2 to disposal.
     
  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    My rule is go to casinos to look at and enjoy the buildings and their amenities.
     
  7. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    It's very inexpensive to de-ionize water for H2 production. This is because it takes relatively little water to make a whole lot of H2.
     
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Well the briny deep has all sorts of mineral impurities. Presumably it is easier to get cleaner input water when you aren't trying to maintain strategic nuclear deterrence from the bottom of the ocean.

    Even if you still have to do something to it, presumably it would be less than what you have to do to seawater.
     
  9. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Yeah, making hydrogen seems like a good way of using excess wind/solar instead of turning them off. Makes hydrogen a battery of sorts and would help regulate a grid.
     
  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I actually did an entire study on that exact topic, and it works best when you combine both battery charging and H2 production.
     
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  11. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Seriously!

    What's the worst that's going to happen? A hydrogen leak?

    "EMERGENCY! Hydrogen spill in aisle fo.. What's that? Oh, it's all just floated up into the troposphere? Never mind fellas, just start the next batch!"
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    can't find any scientific articles on these possibilities
     
  13. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Are you seriously doubting what I said?

    Link
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no, i'm trying to find information on hydrogen production, transport and storage for fueling cars in the future.
     
  15. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    It takes 41.4 kWh and 8 litres of water to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. Takes another 2.67 kWh to compress it to 880 bar necessary for refueling 700 bar tanks like on the Mirai.


    Unsupervised!
    iPhone ?
     
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  16. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Can you please give us a summation of the study?
     
  17. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Hydrogen can be produced cost-effectively at a wind farm, and it's even more cost effective if you combine its production with battery charging for grid firm-up.
     
  18. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Man, I would love to invest in something like that.

    It would save me a lot of trips to the casino.
     
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Not really, even the hydrogen Lobby claim their product can be made with clean solar electricity. What they fail to say though is that the same amount of juice to get you an equivalent amount of hydrogen would you get your battery electric car down the road ~4X as far. So, why would the lobby want to bring it up - when the issue is easily shot down which only serves to make more people realize hydrogen is still, after all these decades, a hoax for automotive purposes.
    .
     
  20. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    When the input energy (sunlight and/or wind) is free, I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of overall efficiency if it means I can skip the cost and mineral source difficulty of a big battery.