Featured Toyota Believes Fuel Cell Prices Will Match Hybrids

I wonder how easy it is to set up a retail hydrogen sales station?

I mean, theoretically it could all be built into an ISO container and dropped off at a pad site one afternoon.

 

Where do I get free solar panels?

I do get "free" night charging on my electricity plan and my Clarity and Energi have been slurping on the cheap stuff for the last hour. Currently (pun not intended) averaging .06 kwhr overall now that I can switch high usage (PHEV's, dryer, a/c load, hot water heater) to free off-peak.

 

Cost to refill. Long Answer: Hydrogen fuel prices range from $12.85 to more than $16 per kilogram (kg), but the most common price is$13.99 per kg (equivalent on a price per energy basis to $5.60 per gallon of gasoline), which translates to an operating cost of $0.21 per mile.
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The funny part of the above is a bunch of assumptions are muddying the water
generally a GGE of hydrogen is 1kg which is $12-$16

How they get to $5.60 per GGE is by some convoluted efficiency conversions which likely don’t apply To all cases


Regardless of what funny business you believe hydrogen is not affordable, even ignorant of conversion losses

 

I don't think Honda was producing these. My brother had a Civic NG car, and he fueled it at home with a compressor station not made by Honda (I don't recall the brand). The problem was that the thing consumed 1 Kwh for each hour of compressing, and it typically took 8 hours to fill the NG tank in the car. At CA rates, that was about $3 just for the electricity, in addition to the cost of the natural gas. The fueling station wasn't cheap (about $4K before rebates) and wasn't that reliable. Living in the LA area, he started going to a local NG station where he could fill the tank from the 3600 psi pump in about 5 minutes. It ended up being cheaper and faster than fueling at home.

 

With the Honda Clarity fuel cell, the fuel in included in the monthly lease with a provided card, so is invisible to the end user at this point.

 

You're right actually, they are not free .... they pay us! After the first 6 years of not buying gas as well as electricity for the house - they paid for their self. And after 10 years, they brought in enough surplus juice - credited back to our electric utility thus paying us, that we bought 4 more - & increased our capacity by an extra 900 watts.

They are a Cheapskates Delight. You can't do that with hydrogen.

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Yes, I know.

Most folks move every few years or rent or live in controlled housing (condos, apartments) where solar isn't an option. You're an outlier right now who can afford the upfront costs for the long term gains. But, seriously, congrats on what you're doing.

 

Not an announcement as much as sharing Tesla long distance driving:

• ~300 mi solo, round trip Huntsville to Athens SuperCharger, ~4 hrs
• ~500 mi solo, round trip Huntsville to Tunica MS, Memphis and Tunica SuperChargers, ~12 hrs
• ~750 mi wife and lap dog round trip Huntsville to Coffeyville KS, ~18 hrs each way.
• ~750 mi wife and three dogs round trip Huntsville to Richardson TX (aka., Dallas), ~18 hrs each way.

We got the car March 26, 2019 with 50 mi on the odometer and now it is at 6,793 mi. Lesson's learned:

1. RV park, 30A sockets vary and at least two variants are needed but NEMA 14-50 appears common.
   • Full charge in ~5-6 hours so 'camp out in the car' that two very friendly adults can share with rear seats down (use side doors, not trunk to enter and exit.)
2. Motels with chargers, call during business hours and make sure maintenance knows which days you will need it. To deal with locals who parasite a free charge and parking spot, many motels are turning them off unless specifically requested.
   • Tesla "dog mode" becomes a climate controlled, kennel with water, food, and puppy pad. Leave contact sheets on dash and windows for anyone 'concerned'. Monitor with cell phone app and take critters for frequent walks and quality time.
3. Adjust speed to preserve battery reserve range:
   • 25-30 mile reserve is great, drive +65 mph
   • 10-24 mile reserve begin reducing speed, ~65 mph
   • <10 mile reserve 45-55 mph
4. Charging priorities:
   • Biology break, some may stay in the business
   • Put car on charger, leave in 'dog mode', and walk to biology/food business
   • Driver walks back to charger
   • Pickup any who might stay in business

Driving our Standard Range Plus Model 3 (SR+M3) is a lot like driving my 1966 VW Microbus in the early 1970s. The 10 gallon gas tank barely exceeded 200 mi range. A 5 gal, spare gas can let me drive through 'high gas price' areas. For SR+M3 trip planning, reaching the first SuperCharger should be a no-drama affair as long as you monitor the reserve battery range. The subsequent SuperCharger sessions will cover up to ~200 mi and with charging take about 3 hours, each. However, I throughly recommend stopping at each SuperCharger along the route for shorter charges and a refreshed driver.

Bob Wilson

 

This one is actually quite poor. On May 31st, 2017 I drove 614 miles from Overland Park, Kansas to Westminster, Colorado in 9 hours and 3 minutes including a 47 minute stop for lunch.

I consider a reserve range of less than 150 miles to be unacceptable when out of town, and this came in quite handy on our last trip.

We drove from Page, Arizona to the Mesa Verde National Park Visitor's Center (for tickets and maps), then back to Cortez, Colorado for an over-night in a hotel. The next day we drove up into Mesa Verde for a drive around the place and a tour of Cliff Palace. Our next destination was Montrose, Colorado so we checked Google Maps and the CDOT website and both said our planned path up highway 550 was open. We drove there only to find it closed due to a very large forest fire. I was actually standing at the barricade talking with the trooper when the two mapping apps still said the road was open. I asked the trooper where I should go, east or west, and he told me they were about to close the eastern route too so I should go back west to Cortez. This route was 102 miles longer than we had planned - with no chargers along the route. Fortunately, I was in the Prime so we didn't even have to stop for gas.

 

Actually the FCV would do the peeing, right? clean piss as FCV byproduct.
All we need is an accessory squirt gun to shoot at the BEV's

 

There is guy in Jersey (NJ) running and H2 house and cars on YouTube.
I forget but I think he uses solar to make H2 from Hydrolysis.

Keep in mind H2 is made from natural gas so that is the fundamental H2 cost (very low USA H2 cost at the moment). However, there are high costs for compression and so on (infrastructure), so that adds in right now. But if you went large scale H2 (like Japan might do) I presume the cost gets down to raw materials (nat gas).

 

Tunica has casinos and the original one had shutdown their only craps table about an hour before I arrived. So I went to a second one, played awhile and then had to return to the Memphis SuperCharger before heading to the Tunica SuperCharger. If the original casino had a craps table, I would have checked in at their RV park, played craps, and taken a nap before driving directly back to Huntsville. These extras added about 4-5 hours to my trip.

I have no problem with anyone else's reserve range requirement as we live in different areas and have time requirements.

You'll notice I'm fairly cautious in testing by taking several longer trips with more complications as I become used to how to drive our SR+M3 cross country. Eventually, we'll do the 'Big Trip' to visit kin in Arizona, California, Nevada, and Washington State. But I'll probably wait to September/October to get off-season rates and avoid families on vacation.

Bob Wilson

 

I looked into it as an investment once and gave up almost immediately. It's not that easy and really expensive. A single compressor and pump cost about $100,000 plus the pump MFG required a $100,000 maintenance contract. Storage had some pretty onerous requirements like how many feet from the nearest road not to mention businesses or any building. Those were just the federal requirements. State had additional requirements.

I also looked into cogeneration but decided to wait for more advanced options like Photoelectrolysis or chemical PEM generation. Electrolysis and Reformation would be backups.

All in all a lousy business to refill a few passenger car a couple of kgs. In order to make it anyway profitable you'd want semis, construction and delivery trucks to refill with dozens of kgs.


Unsupervised!
iPhone ?

 

Major step forward in the production of 'green' hydrogen

A more efficient way to produce Hydrogen seems to be getting closer. Maybe Toyota knows more than we do.

 

I've been to Las Vegas 9 times and Reno about 12 times. I've never bet a nickel on anything. In fact, the Reno trips were all for a big engineering conference. When the hotel was filled with 3,000 engineers, the casino was entirely empty. That's what math training will do for you.

 

poor @bwilson4web .... ya keep trying to convince him of the importance of burnin gas ... yet he just doesn't get it.

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Honda had teamed up with one of the companies. When the issues with the fuel system came to light, Honda ended it, and I believe they also wouldn't cover any fuel system repairs of cars still using them under warranty.

NG itself can be a great fuel. The refueling infrastructure is limited though, which is why Honda supported the home systems in the first place. It would far cheaper to expand the infrastructure for NG than for hydrogen.

It is also far cheaper to expand public charging.

He obviously used liter instead of kilogram by mistake, and the price he quoted is about what hydrogen costs in California.

Now, if he meant a liter, the value is off. It would only be about $1, but you would need around 14L to get a kg.

Such a system won't be able to refuel many cars during a day.

Handling gases is never as easy as handling liquids. A hydrogen station needs a reserve tank that is compressed and chilled in order to provide those 'like a gas car' refueling times. Filling it takes time, and when it's low, refuel times approach fast DC charging ones.

Making it is only a part of the problem. Most of the cost is getting it to where you need it, and filling and chilling those station tanks. Current hydrogen car tanks are 10k psi, so the station tank is higher, and chilled to -40 degrees.

 

..... - 40° brrrrr - but I'm sure the juice to do that was reasonably priced.

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do hydrogen filling stations cost the same as charging stations?

i know electricity comes from the grid, where does hydrogen come from, a nationwide supply line?

 

Much more expensive.