Featured Toyota still balking on EV's

The Volt transmission is used in the Malibu hybrid.

 

How many have been sold ?

It was basically DOA, the complete opposite of RAV4 hybrid. Of course, Malibu itself is of little interest to GM anyway.

 

They believe they can bring the cost of a hydrogen fuel cell down to about the cost of an engine.

 

A hundred, a thousand, a million doesn't matter, they still used it.

 

I think there are around 4,400 hybrid Malibus. Palty. Maybe they should stop pushing them. But wait, that's still more than the even MORE highly subsidised fuel cell car.
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And the cost of hydrogen to 3x the cost of gasoline.

Bob Wilson

 

toyota wont stop the lies until the money dries up

 

For the 2005 Prius, I got the $2000 federal tax deduction, and a $500 rebate from Pennsylvania.

While it has the compromised trunk space for the battery, the main fault with the Malibu hybrid was in the timing. It arrived when gas prices were low, and cars falling out of favor. Even the ICE ones are getting cancelled. I don't see the non-plug hybrid system going into another vehicle, as GM has tiny and small diesels currently available, which have a plus of not requiring battery supplies.

 

There is no law of physics requiring it to be 3x more expensive. It's a matter of scale, efficiency and cost of renewables.

 

Absolutely there are no laws of physics here, and today unsubsidized 10,000 psi hydrogen fueling would really be about 10x cost of gasoline in the US, but only 3x in japan ;-) It depends on the cost of oil, refining, distribution, and taxes. Unsubsidized hydrogen prices have not fallen as proponents have claimed they would even with the scale of 100 stations in Japan. The way hydrogen gaines parity with gasoline is for gasoline prices to rise higher ;-) subsidies will be even more ownerous if more hydrogen vehicles go on the road.

What physics does dictate is hydrogen will take 3x as much electricity to produce for similar range as a plug in. Take the prius prime or tesla model 3 standard plus efficiency of 133 mpge, and the most efficient hydrogen vehicle the clarity fuel cell 68 mpge, then for electrolysis, compression and pumping its about 65% efficiency dropping the clarity to around 44 mpge on electricity. If we look at using natural gas to fuel both instead of electricity they get closer the plug-in model 3 drops to about 53 mpge on natural gas compared to about the same 44 mpge natural gas on the clarity. For those fuel cells though there is a much higher cost if unsubsidized.

 

My filling station.

 

.... the thing is - often, as one fossil-fuel becomes more constrained, others follow - weather its distribution, supply & demand or something else. Yet - the science experiment continues. As the (fue cell) industry has said since the 1970s, maybe (fuel costs, infrastructure, tech hurdles) in 10 years?
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The 1966 GM Electrovan FCV. Back then, the complaint was about fuel practicality.

 

Made from natural gas hydrogen probably costs around as much as gasoline. Renewable sources jack that up.

But then the hydrogen needs to be transported to the station. After that, it needs to compressed and chilled in order to provide refill times approaching that of a liquid fueled car. It is all the energy to accomplish that, that is the real increase in prices.

 

Let's wait for fusion power plants and we will have as much hydrogen as one could want.

Bob Wilson

 

I thought those needed hydrogen and made helium.

 

And like 1950s nuclear power plants, so much energy to cheap to charge.

Bob Wilson