Mirai range maps

According to InsideEVs, in 2018 in California Toyota sold 1,700 Mirais, Honda sold 624 Clarity fuel cells, and Hyundai sold 8 Nexos (sales started in December).

 

This should be a zombie thread but ...
By The Numbers | California Fuel Cell Partnership

Is a great way to see the fuel cell numbers. They update it quite often. There are over 100 hydrogen fueling stations in japan, so its not that california only has 39 retail stations That keep the numbers down (6547 in california, 3026 in Japan). This includes all manufacturers but the mirai has the biggest market share.

Tesla Keeps Cranking Out Battery-Electric Cars While Toyota Won't Budge

 

why are we still wasting time and money on a futile mission

 

Which mission?
Fuel cells may replace an ICE as a range extender for a plug in. Solid oxide ones can run directly off simple hydrocarbons; methane and maybe methanol. For others, use an efficient on board reformer. That is Nissan's plan. Their FCEV runs off ethanol, and is a small fuel cell with a big battery, so the design just needs space for a charger. Even if these fuel cells don't make it into cars and trucks, the research will benefit fuel cells for stationary power generation.

The hydrogen infrastructure mission seems to be of no benefit. We can get the majority of the benefits it claims for a fraction of the cost with plug ins and hybridization.

 

sorry, that's way over my head. seems much simpler and cost effective, as well as environmentally effective to put all our resources into ev's and renewables. but i'm no expert.

 

Oh, it is, but BEVs won't work for everything. So a fuel cell that runs on methane, methanol, or even diesel, which we can all make from renewable electricity, may beat out the ICE as a range extender. Continuing research is a small cost, and if they use the same fuel as ICE of the time do, then adoption will be low cost.

Then solid oxide fuel cells are already being used commercially for onsite power generation, and their use for electric generation could expand. The research in using them for transportation won't be completely wasted if they never go into cars.

 

do you think the tesla semi is pie in the sky?

 

& yet, most of the industry wants to push hydrogen like a crack dealer in Harlem. It's baffling why methanol / methane aren't focused on more heavily since they doen't require a 10,000Lbs PSI storage system - nor costs of $15/liter like hydrogen does.
.

 

Not sure what you are asking about.

My understanding is that PEM fuel cells are 'cheaper', more efficient, and essentially zero emissions. The downside is that they need pure hydrogen for fuel. They also may have an advantage in being a more mature technology, getting a head start advantage over other fuel cell types.

Solid oxide fuel cells don't require expensive catalysts, but they have a high operating temperature that increases costs elsewhere, like needing a larger battery on non-plug models for operation while the cell heats up. The heat up time also hurts overall vehicle efficiency. Then while reduced, there are the emissions from the fuels.

I think the hydrogen push is because PEM came first and is what nearly everyone is invested in. As far as I know, Nissan is the only car company working with solid oxide.

 

sorry, 'tesla semi'

 

Tesla isn't the only one doing a BEV truck, though Mercedes and Volvo are starting with "smaller" box trucks for local routes. Volvo has delivered some in Sweden already. Volvo delivers its first electric trucks - Electrek

I think Tesla will come through with the semi simply because it helps support the Model 3(same motors). It isn't a cross country truck though. Hybrids will be a better fit for the miles they cover. Shifting to CNG will reduce emissions further, and it sets up the infrastructure for solid oxide FCEV trucks if the technology pans out.