1000 Miles in a Tesla Model 3 in 1 day: NJ to FL

The whole garage/carport argument isn't really that great of argument, considering a good chunk of people that don't have those live in a city. I know a lot of EV owners that get all their charging needs done while at work or shopping.

Believing that some of these problems won't get better, and soon, is showing your naivete.

 

I am sure the society will adjust to EVs if and when they become the norm rather than the exception. Battery technology is still in flux and as it matures it may very well address many of these charging issues. Assuming things stay the same as now, the charging infrastructure will mature as more vehicles become electric. We adjusted to almost everyone having a personal automobile, which was not the case only two or three generations ago. House design changed, city infrastructure changed to accommodate a personal automobile, which was a new thing. Going from gas to electric seems a much smaller change and I am sure we'll adapt. The above car port example illustrates exactly how trivial the problem actually is. This is not rocket science and a little change in design and lifestyle will address many of these issues. The real problem is the pace. For some it can't happen fast enough and for others it will never happen. The reality is somewhere in between, as usual.

 

I agree this should and likely will eventually happen. The root problem right now is that batteries are lousy - they have very poor energy density compared to what they're supposed to replace - by about a factor of four or five. Fix that problem (easier said than done), and every new car will be an EV within a decade, which will force charging infrastructure to follow.

 

hmm, where have i heard that before?

 

This is what we need. Like all battery claims, take it with skepticism, but there's hope.

Technology - Innolith Science and Technology GmbH

"Innolith has created an entirely new rechargeable battery technology platform based on inorganic electrolyte. Innolith has built batteries which have been tested over 50,000 cycles at half-hour charge / half-hour discharge with 0 to 100% depth of discharge."

Innolith Energy Technology Brings 1000km EV Within Range - Innolith Science and Technology GmbH

"Innolith AG, the world leader in rechargeable Inorganic Battery Technology, today announces that it is developing world’s first 1000 Wh/kg rechargeable battery. Under development in the company’s German laboratory, the new Innolith Energy Battery would be capable of powering an Electric Vehicle (EV) for over 1000km on a single charge. The Innolith Energy Battery would also radically reduce costs due to the avoidance of exotic and expensive materials combined with the very high energy density of the system."

The reason to be optimistic here, is that a version of these batteries is already deployed on the grid:

PJM Case Study - Innolith Science and Technology GmbH

"Innolith‘s technology has been proven through deployment in the US state of Maryland where it provides grid stabilisation services for the PJM market and helps ensure a reliable power on for residents and businesses.

PJM Interconnection coordinates the movement of electricity through all or parts of Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia and the District of Columbia.

The Innolith GridBank is located in Hagerstown, Maryland. The 2MW, 1MWh system was installed in August 2017 to deliver frequency and voltage regulation services for the PJM wholesale market."

A 1000Wh/kg battery with a 50,000 cycle life (to 50% capacity retention) would wipe out ICE-powered small vehicles at a rapid rate. Think about it - a car could last 30 years, and the battery would weigh as much as a person instead of as much as a grand piano. And it would cost around 1/4th as much as a current battery, despite giving you a 450-600 miles range.

Let's hope.

 

The only fuel that beats gas today is nuclear (MUCH better in terms of energy density). Batteries are not likely to approach gas in energy density (I think there are laws of physics that won't cooperate), so we'll need to figure out a way to adjust as gas will eventually run out.

 

Oh, but we don't have to beat the gasoline itself, fortunately since it's 33.5kWh/kg. We only have to beat the combined system - gas, tank, fuel line, engine, exhaust system. Once you add those weights and apply losses the net from a gasoline engine system is around 1000Wh/kg.

 

In your eyes what energy density is acceptable if you also take into account system simplication (ie. less maintenance) and less wheel to well emissions?

 

if the true cost of gasoline hit the pumps, a lot of people would be taking a hard look at ev's. energy density would not hep much

 

In that case the cost of electricity will surely follow the cost of gasoline, as it usually does (remember the electricity rates of early 2000's). It's when the oil truly becomes scarce (and we have found a way to generate enough electricity for our needs without it) that the market forces will take effect. I do not see oil subsidies going away in US anytime soon.

 

I doubt that and here's why.

Most people don't do detailed life cycle cost of ownership before they buy a car, and there's a good reason for that - a correction will use very little cost in fuel over its lifetime. Most of the cost is the upfront capital cost.

That's why most cars aren't designed with efficiency in mind. Cars typically use .5 to 1.0 times their capital cost in fuel over their lifetimes.

By contrast airliner design is focused around minimizing fuel burn because a typical airliner will use 10 to 20 times its initial capital cost in fuel over its lifetime.

 

We don't use oil to generate electricity in the continental US.

 

That is not my point. My point is when one source of energy goes up in price the others usually follow. It happened in the early 2000's when gas prices went up and natural gas and electricity prices followed.

There is some small, single digit percent oil powered generation still happening in US, but again, not my point.

 

There are weatherproof EVSEs, so a garage or car port aren't a requirement for home charging.
With a detatched garage

Three minutes to refuel, including pulling into and out of the station, with gasoline is impressive. US regulation limits car pumps to 10 gallons a minute max.

 

That isn't so.

That was as special case that can be safely ignored.

Gas and oil can go up together at times because they are often mined at the same time at the same facilities, but even that is a tenuous link. Most other sources have long-term PPAs and cannot change their long-term pricing so easily.

 

Like the bulk of the anecdotal incidences you have reported here, they are "special case(s) that can be safely ignored."

Fossil fuels are a finite resource, are a carcinogenic agent, are a source of global political conflict and war, and cannot be safely ignored. Every one of us can choose to be part of the solution or part of the problem.

 

No, that specific case was because of illegal market manipulation.

I guarantee I'm more a part of the solution than anyone here, as I've contributed substantially to the generation of 2 terawatt-hours of renewable energy, just in the US.

But I'm a realist, and EV proponents that claim current EVs are as good as anyone would ever need are part of the problem, not the solution. Over-selling a limited technology isn't the way, making the technology less limited is. Telling the public lies will only push them away. Remember, most people don't have any clue about what this technology does or means.

 

'more than anyone here, guaranteed'

 

Citing edge cases is market manipulation (and illegal if the intent is market manipulation)

I guarantee I am the King of Arabee and stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

Sowing FUD is an attempt to push the public away. Remember. most people who fancy themselves as an expert without ever owning or driving a Tesla "don't have any clue about what the technology does or means."

 

I don't think anyone here (especially not me) are saying that the current EVs are "as good as anyone would ever need."
More that the current EVs are "good enough" to replace many of the cars on the road. We don't need 276 million gas cars in the US for the job that they are doing. Probably 1/4 to 1/2 could be EVs based on their normal usage. And probably half of those could be supported by charging at home or work with only the minor issue of installing a few chargers.

Cost is still an issue for many people, but with rising volumes we are seeing costs drop as capability increase.

Mike