Tedh1979 2005 Prius Project with multiple issues looking for help!

yes

no. it depends on how old the salvage battery is and how long it has been sitting. there's really no way to know without testing.

you've taken on a major project for cheap money. why not get a new 12v and tech stream?

 

Once you've got a stable source of 12 volt power so the ECU built into the HV battery can boot up, and you have Techstream or another scan tool capable of communicating with that ECU, you'll be able to see the information it curates about the condition of the battery. It will show you the voltages across every "block" (pair of adjacent modules) in the battery, their calculated internal resistances, and the estimated state of charge of the battery, among other things.

It is probably safe to expect the battery to be well and truly discharged at this point. As I understand it, below a certain state of charge (20% maybe), the HV ECU will choose not to try to crank the engine. Above that SoC, you might get a few tries at starting. but perhaps not very many, and the engine might not be in top shape to start on the first try, either.

So, yes, you might have to get access to a charger for the HV battery and try to get a bunch of joules in there first, and then recheck what the battery ECU thinks of its condition. You might see all 28 modules come back to correct nominal voltages, or you might see some of them come back while others stick at lower voltages suggesting reversed or shorted cells. That information will guide your next moves.

 

As I stated in the other thread, first figure out the cause of the oil puddle on the flat bed. Next, get a known good 12V source. Power up the car in the ACC mode (press power button twice without having the foot on the brake pedal. If you press power while pressing the brake pedal the car will try to go into "read" mode and you definitely do not want that). That will allow you to use a scan tool to explore more.

Once you have some information report back and you will get plenty of help here. Until then it's a waiting game as no one is able to know what the problems are without having eyes on the facts. Assumptions do not do anyone any good. You assume you have an oil leak, but you have no idea what the source of the oil was. That only confuses the situation. Report known facts, not conjecture and help will be forthcoming.

 

In some cases it's like you're making inconsistencies out of things that aren't really inconsistent.

It's true that the ECU will protect the battery from getting too low. But without charging, the only way to protect a battery from getting too low is to avoid discharging, right? Cranking the engine discharges it. So somewhere down around 20% true SoC, the ECU will say "no more engine crank attempts for you, I'm protecting the battery." It's not like those are incompatible facts.

Keep in mind that the battery bar graph on the dash isn't showing you the full range of battery charge state. The car normally seeks to keep the battery right around 60%, nearly always between 40% and 80%, and that's the range the dash bar graph covers. When you are reading actual SoC over the diagnostic port with a scan tool, you'll see how that works.

Techstream is the Toyota diagnostic software that is able to pull all of the info from your car that you might want. All the other options you've read about can have various attractive features too. It's just that sometimes you may run into a situation where one of those other tools isn't giving you the information you're looking for, and when that happens, sooner or later, someone is going to say "have you tried Techstream?".

If it were my project car, I would relax and start by just providing 12 volts to the car's computers. A nice solid 12 volts is all the computers need to wake up and talk to you. They will all wake up if you put the car in "ON" condition (you do not need "READY", which is where it would try to start the engine.) You get to "ON" by pressing the power button twice without pressing the brake.

When the computers are awake, ask the battery one what it thinks about the battery. For that matter, ask the engine one what it thinks about the engine, and the brake one what it thinks about the brakes, etc. (If you have Techstream, just select "health check", it'll talk to them all.)

Next moves can be planned based on what you find out.

Also a good visual inspection to figure out where that oil came from....

Edit: oh, and pace VFerdman, "ACC" mode is where you get with one power button push, no brakes. For all the computers to be awake, you need "ON" mode (two power button pushes, no brakes). So, yeah, we're telling you two different things there, but you can use the owner's manual to break the tie.

 

Find out if you have an oil leak and any coolant. Hopefully your mechanic knows Prius systems, otherwise he may be equally in the dark. Send me your email by pm and I will send you some reading material. Most people have background on their vehicle and as a result have an advantage when diagnosing a failure to go to ready. The inverter is the most common hybrid failure causing no ready condition after a dead 12v battery. There is no magic bullet on these highly complex cars with all the technology of an ev combined with the mechanics of an internal combustion engine all syncronized by an amazing transaxle. WeberAuto on youtube has a university professor in a comprehensive video series explaining how most of the major components in hybrids work. Which is important to understand prior to serious diy diagnosis and repair. Here is an example:

 

I'm still less than a year into my first hybrid, just throwing in a couple pennies here.

Hybrid vehicle battery conditioning and module-swap repair are pretty advanced steps for a first timer. None of the steps are particularly difficult, but I felt the need to point out that you really are jumping into the deep end. You mentioned familiarity with PC repair- Imagine giving someone their very first introduction to a personal computer by starting with the JTAG header on the motherboard. It's going to be a heck of an education by the time you're done, but it may not be the optimal starting point.

There's a lot to be said for slamming in a new, fully warrantied genuine Toyota battery pack, assuming that the rest of the car is in decent shape. You can get some of the same end result with module swaps, but it's a lot of work that can be fraught with time-consuming disappointment along the way. And even when you do all of it right, it won't last nearly as long as a new replacement. Age really does drag these batteries down whether you use them or not.

I'm not here to suggest that you can't do it- if anything I want to encourage you. But I am a bit concerned that you're well on your way to spending six grand on a car that'll be worth three before you even put the tools away.

Obviously such a journey would also gain you quite an education- if that makes up the difference for you, then by all means... full speed ahead! But I do think it's worth asking you to plainly state your goals and budget for this car (in this thread) for the benefit of readers who haven't seen your other posts scattered around.

 

Congrats on the purchase.
Lots of fun stuff to learn about hybrids. Once you learn it, then you can hopefully share it with others in your local and online community.

I've seen your other posts about all kinds of topics.
People are sharing some good free advice and info with you.

If you ever want to have a quick chat about Prius feel free to give me a call. 608-729-4082. I have my own shop and work on hybrids for a living.

It will be more helpful once you have some diagnostic equipment. Although some things you could do ahead of time.

I'd be curious about the part number and see a pic of the $62 battery.

 

tech stream = amazon. it is not a phone app

 

Color me envious!

Can't wait to see how it all works out.

 

If you can work on the car yourself, have avvessato cheap used partsp and have another dependable car, then buying a cheap semi-working Prius can be fun.

 

So you are a used car flipper. This one could flop or it could be a runner. Most likely your codes cleared after the battery disconnect just like your Mustangs. Techstream is dealer level software now available for a PC. Not every piece of software is on the google store but a google search would quickly bring up this: https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/appmanager/t3/ti?_pageLabel=ti_ts_lite&_nfpb=true

 

Yes, @ChapmanF, you are correct, the term is "ON" mode, not "ACC" mode. I used an incorrect term, but I did say press power button twice without brakes.

I am attaching a PDF copy of the owner's manual. It's good to at least go through the basics with it.

To @Tedh1979. You already have the diagnostic tools that will get you started. A bluetooth dongle and some Android apps like Dr. Prius and Torque Pro are fine and will get you where you want to go most of the time. One thing is to make sure you get a good quality dongle. There are some out there that simply do not work due to being total junk. I use this one and it works well. But I also have similar to this I got earlier and it's an example of junk that is useless. Once you have a known good dongle, you should be able to set up Torque to read most of the ECUs on the Prius. Certainly the hybrid battery one and many others. Enough to figure out the hybrid battery and engine situation.

Techstream is the software Toyota dealers use to interact with their cars in the their shops. That means that it's pretty much the best setup you can get. It's very expensive if bought legitimately (we are talking thousands of $$). It involves buying a cable that connects to the OBDII port and the software itself. Software runs on MS Windows only and it likes the 32 bit versions of OS, though it's not impossible to run it on 64 bit Windows. I have not tried Techstream yet as I have not had a need to do so. I use Torque Pro, Dr. Prius and Hybrid Assistant. That has been enough for me so far, but my car is relatively healthy (with 207+K miles now). You can purchase a Chinese knock-off for the cable on Amazon here. But just as with the crappy OBDII dongle, this has a good chance of simply being junk that does not work. Many people here have had luck with it. I have not tried it (though I own a copy). It comes with an old copy of Techstream that usually also has viruses on it and most people install it on a sand-boxed old laptop that they do not need for anything else. I am sure there is more and better info out there on Techstream. I have not installed or tried it yet. I am sure I will at some point, though.

As for the hybrid battery charger, you are getting good info. You are simply not understanding it correctly. On board software in the car will protect the battery from getting too low under NORMAL OPERATING CONDITIONS. It can't do much for the battery that is left to sit without being operated in the system and self-discharge. Also, it can't do much if your engine does not start. That engine is the only way software knows of to charge the hybrid battery. If the engine won't start after enough tries the hybrid battery will discharge (hybrid battery is the one that starts the engine, not the 12V) and the software will protect it by not allowing any more engine starting attempts. This is the situation that will require the charger. Prolong sells a grid charger that will do the job. It's expensive and you will also need to buy a harness to wire up to your hybrid battery to use it. It works well and is separate from the discharger, which is used in conjunction with the charger to cycle the battery for conditioning and life prolonging effects. This conditioning is outside the scope of this discussion right now, so you will not need to buy the discharger, just the charger and ONLY if your hybrid battery has fallen below that dreadful level where it won't be able to start the engine properly. Before any of this is discovered you need to know that the engine is capable of being started and run. Does it have oil? Does it have coolant (and while you are checking coolant, does the inverter have coolant and a working water pump, which is separate from the engine water pump. Inverter pump is electric, engine pump is mechanical)? Does it have spark plugs?

Lastly, a 12V battery in a gen 2 Prius is tiny and the system does not need a lot of amps to start. There is no starter to crank, just a few relays to close and power up some ECUs. So your jump pack should be more than enough to power up the car. You are not getting the codes because they have been erased by disconnected or dead battery (that's a "code reset switch" of sorts). In order for the codes to come back the 12V supply must be constant and conditions under which the codes have been set repeated. If the 12V is interrupted the codes will go away until next time both 12V and conditions that caused the codes are there.

 

I love this thread (including preceding towing dead battery Gen2 comments) and what OP is trying to do. I have no knowledge nor ability to help the OP's effort, but enjoy reading the comments by others and learning more about Prius and car repairs in general. Good luck with your endeavor.

That said, shouldn't this thread be moved to Gen2 forum to get more people with experience with this car to see it?

 

A lot of your confusion is actually a result of your own actions. You have posted questions in many different threads without giving full detail of the car and it’s problems. Currently you have absolutely zero idea what the state of charge of the traction battery is. ZERO. you need to figure things like that out first before asking for help. And 62 dollars for a Prius battery? Is it used or something?

You also mentioned you have Dr Prius and torque pro. Do have a reader that works with those? I have never used either but I think both of them can tell you the state of charge of the battery pack. Just disconnect the old battery so it doesn’t draw down your jump pack and hit the start button twice with your foot off the brake. That will start the computers. Don’t expect any codes though. Most get erased when the car has no 12 v power.

You said you never tried to start the car but I’m pretty sure many of the people before you did.

 

Also you talked about a used charger. There was one for sale recently with the simple discharger for 380.

For Sale - Prolong Charger + Simple Discharger | PriusChat

 

I'm not sure it's quite that bad really. If you go for the cable that Toyota actually tests and recommends (Drew Technologies' Mongoose Pro), that piece of hardware is a little under $500. There are less expensive J2534 cables available that will also work, and it's not illegitimate to use one, you just won't have Toyota support if it doesn't work.

As for the software itself, your license to use it goes with the 'professional' or higher level of subscription at techinfo.toyota.com, which is priced at $1295 for a year, or $65 for a two-day period. If the shorter period is all you need, that's not really any worse than you'll pay the dealer to drink their coffee while they use their copy. Well, of course you also need to scrounge a Windows laptop to run it on.

If you have a need for the year subscription, and you want the Toyota-blessed Mongoose Pro dongle, you can save money the first year with their bundle (first year of subscription and the $500 dongle, for some number I don't remember exactly, but less than $1295 + $500).

So yeah, it's not down at the low-price end of the available options, but also not as awful as it's sometimes made to sound.