Drama-Filled Company (CR article)

Your attack on Tesla means nothing to me. They've already gotten my money, and I am fairly certain they'll be around long enough to support a car that needs next to no service and will continue to get better with OTA updates whatever remaining life there is in my model 3 - before I decide to sell it.

I quite honestly posted my insecurities for the whole world to see. Your attack on Tesla means nothing to me. Drive whatever BEV you like, just drive a BEV. You have a right to damage your own health by driving ICE, but you don't have a right to damage mine as a result.

 

Your last statement is incorrect. People have the right to drive whatever kind of vehicle they want within the existing laws. No one is attacking Tesla or Toyota. If anything, legal choice is being attacked.

 

No kidding. Those two need to kiss and make up.
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Yes, legal choice was being attacked back as far as 1970's during the beginnings of the public smoking debate when smoking was allowed just about anywhere, including hospitals. Your counter-argument sounds much like the arguments of the pro-smoking lobby back then. Today, much has changed, thank dog, through legislation, regulation, and public policy. When people are so resistant to change self-destructive habits, then (unfortunately in my opinion) laws have to be enacted to force them to change. It is the same debate all over again with regards to climate change caused by a lot of different things but primarily by reliance on fossil fuels which represents a much greater danger to mankind than smoking tobacco.

I am critical of Toyota not because they don't make a good vehicle, but because they refuse to address the climate change conundrum by their reliance on ICE just so they can maximize profit in the short term, much like big tobacco did back in the '70's. I would like to see Toyota become a responsible corporate citizen and start doing something about their promotion of the ICE. Their development of hydrogen based transportation has been half-hearted at best and without a viable infrastructure, their HFCV is essentially dead. Their plug-in hybrid program is like tobacco companies promoting filter cigarettes. It's still a cigarette by any other name. Toyota needs to and can do better.

 

Tesla is a Delorean of car companies. GM, Ford and Chrysler are America as Apple pie. Government will always be in the wings to keep them going.

 

Toyota ICE is far from dead, and their are plenty of buyers who still want “old technology”. What new medical issues will evolve from EV’s. There is nothing man made does not have some negative affect on world health.

 

And therein lies the problem.

I don't know, you tell me. None so far.

That's a bit of an over-reach but perhaps you are correct from an esoteric viewpoint. And IF your statement is true, it should not prevent us from trying to mitigate those affects.

 

Sheesh! How many cars did Delorean build? How many different models did they build? What new technologies did they use in their cars (no, it wasn't aluminum)? What was their photovoltaic company called? How many fueling stations did they build that were exclusively for their cars? At what point did they become the highest selling car in their market segment?

Your statement is just plain silly.

 

I would suggest then you take your argument/s to the law makers, because you are not going to find many on a Prius Forum that side with you against Toyota as a general rule. That's like going to a gun forum and soap boxing for the elimination of all guns. What's the point.

Everyone applauds Tesla for what they have done so far, but BEVs, their lack of infrastructure and general lack of acceptance by the public as a direct unrestricted replacement for ICE and Hybrid are still in their infancy. Even Hybrids, with their "gains" towards eliminating dependency on oil and reducing environmental degradation...all while still allowing the public the same freedom as ICE...are but a small part of the market share. You will just have to be patient as this BEV solution...whether transitional or permanent...will take more time than just punching out a few compliance vehicles. Debates with nameless participants in "some forum" will not change this one bit either.

Just feel content that you are doing your part by owning and operating what you see as "a" solution. The same way many Prius owners did and still do.

 

jay leno says some babies born today will never have ridden in a combustion engine car when they get their drivers license

 

Ha!


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You know I'm not on a gun forum soap boxing for gun control? You not so cleverly re-framed the debate. Gun control is not the same as elimination of all guns. The same goes for the transition to sustainable energy.

To repeat my point again and again, if necessary, is that the transition to sustainable energy will not occur until a large portion of the population demands government do something about it, legacy automakers provide viable alternatives (Toyota currently being the most glaring example), people come to grips with the damage caused to the environment by fossil fuels (if not for themselves at least for their children), and challenge the science deniers at every opportunity. Saying that driving a Toyota is good enough is simply not good enough. It is like saying smoking filter cigarettes is good enough. It is simply NOT good enough. If I wanted to find people who sided with me regarding Toyota, I would stay in the echo chamber of the Tesla fora. Again you not so cleverly try to re-frame the debate. I am NOT "against" Toyota. They make a fine automobile. I am "critical" of Toyota for NOT making a viable alternative fuel vehicle. I want Toyota to stay in business. I want Toyota to make a profit. I want Toyota to make a range of of alternative fuel vehicles that will appeal to people on this forum who are brand loyal.

There is simply so much misinformation about BEVs, particularly Tesla, on this forum by people who are totally unfamiliar with the technology even to the point of refusing to go see one in person. So yeah, I will stay on my "soapbox" to challenge the Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt that is being spread here. I generally don't push my argument unless someone posts something here that is subject to debate. You can always put me on "ignore" like some members have done, but then you expose the weakness and lack of confidence in your argument. Those who don't put me on ignore but disagree with me to a large or small degree, like for example @orenji (who I know personally) or @bisco and perhaps even @frodoz737, I consider friends (although misguided friends ) And good friends often do vehemently disagree on some subjects but remain friends in spite of it.

 

Suzuki is no longer here, and yet their car's warranties are still being covered.
Suzuki Owners: What You Need To Know Post-Bankruptcy | Edmunds

I don't see Tesla failing at this point, and even if they; they will quickly be bought by others since Tesla failing won't stop BEVs globally, and bankruptcy proceedings will more than likely take into account support for the car owners for a period after the end.

Tesla is still a young company. More service centers should open up in time. But pay attention to your law makers, A bill or consideration in Texas will ban Tesla from providing service for their products.

The S and X cost more to repair because of the aluminum bodies. The Model 3 is steel like other cars. Parts can cost more, but that is because of economics, not construction. Brake rotors for the Prius are cheap because Toyota makes millions of them, and uses them on potentially dozens of models. Tesla doesn't have that type of scale when it comes to the mundane car parts.

In regards to the article, I don't see Tesla as drama filled. Now, Musk can create drama, which normally wouldn't be an issue for the company, but there are others willing to take advantage of it and create their own. Shorters have certainly published plenty of their own drama, and the above Texas bill is from car dealer associations.

If where Tesla is at right now, makes you uncomfortable, don't buy one. If you do, well, you can be better prepared than someone that bought a Suzuki those last few years.

 

Just as the youth of today have never driven a stick shift! It’s gonna be a sad day if this becomes reality.

Suzuki is still alive and well in Europe and Asia. So it’s not like they shut down their doors. Parts will always be available and they provide service through a 3rd party.

 

I wonder if people felt it would be a sad day when the notion cane up that no one would be riding horses to school.
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Henry Ford changed America and horses have him to thank! What Animals has Tesla saved from hard labor?

 

Elon Musk is saving polar bears, butterflies, several species of birds, insects, and beetles plus countless other species (perhaps humans too) from extinction with his personal fight for a sustainable future to fight global warming and climate change. A small step for a man, but a giant leap for mankind. What animals have you saved?

 

My question was regarding hard labor. Climate change is happening. This is the wettest California winter I have experienced. I predict this summer will be the warmest on record. Will the switch to driving an EV impact climate change, maybe? But your forgetting Toyota is committed to Hydrogen and so is Japan. So maybe promoting Hydrogen and EV and not saying EV is the only way, you too can be contributing to saving the planet in a greater means. I have saved several dogs from the pound, maybe not that impressive, but they may think so.

 

Better hold off on the predictions. Your weather rain forecast is only good if you're under age 14.... because there have been quite a few wet rainy season's over the past Century that records have been kept.