Featured Toyota Is Losing the Electric Car Race, So It Pretends Hybrids Are Better

L2 type charging at home is rarely needed. It's only for people with extremely long commutes. L1 is sufficient for most because it can easily add 60-90 miles of range per day, on average, which is far more than most people average per day. The battery smooths out the peaks.

L2 is for either quick-charging a short-range car like my Prime or a Leaf or for over-night charging of a mid-range EV like a 100D Model S or a Model 3 ER.

 

Agreed. In case of 2010 Prius in good shape driven lightly and maintained well, however, that point may not come until the useful life of the car is reached.

I am referring to my statement being directed as a response to a particular post, which I quoted, not as a general life philosophy.

 

In the more polished bits of automotive history, we hear of engineers or designers or decision-makers or teams of such who achieved x with car y or engine b etc. And GM certainly has teams, or cliques or... some other form of unit organization... did the Volt just not wind up with the right patron/team/hero-role committee?

Do they need a re-animated, electrified Roger Smith to put Saturn stickers on it or something?

 

I get it..and I'm not trying to knock on anyone. I agree with you and I'm glad that many of you are rational about it.

However, there is the rather large contingent that seems to rationalize away nearly every con that BEVs may have ( charging costs being one of them ). I just wish that contingent would at least acknowledge that there *are* cons. Oh well...it is what it is.

 

we live at the start of the Autotrain route and we get the occasional visitor the night before the snow bunnies take the train. But we charge alot for electrons ay my house, so they stick with a Camry. But if I had time I suppose I could go over and count the EV's loading on.

 

Toyota's sales expectations for the PiP were the same as GM's for the Volt, and were also off.
Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid - Wikipedia

The Voltec Equinox is just as likely as a Rav4 PHEV.

L2 is slightly more efficient, and the wiring cost in new construction is minimal.
For those is which L1 can cover their daily needs, L2 may be needed for preconditioning the cabin.

It did have one. The government wanted to cancel it during the bankruptcy.

The Volt could have survived if it didn't have multiple things against it. The price was high, but GM could justify discounts, and they have had cut production costs for it, though a halo effect and CAFE. But then cars, mainly sedans, fell out of favor with the public. The low gas prices that helped that shift don't help efficient cars. The three models made at the same plant are all sedans that have all seen their sales decline, and none can point to GM mishandling a plug in program as a reason for that decline.

So GM is moving to close that plant, and it isn't the only plant making a sedan getting 'unallocated'. Moving production around to continue making the Volt is possible, but it is not low cost solution. Gas prices are still low, the Volt's price still high, and now GM has the Bolt for that halo effect, and to help with CAFE. The cost to move things around for the Volt would be better spent on bringing a crossover using its technology.

There are cons, but using hyperbole will make the pro-side defensive. Take charger fees. Some are excessive, but comparing Supercharger fees to something like the Prius isn't a like comparison. The models in a Tesla's class aren't the most efficient out there, and then most recommend premium gas. That is specially true of those with similar performance to a Tesla.

 

I tried, and failed, to detect a difference in efficiency.

You don't need L2 to pre-condition. I ran a double-preconditioning in my Prime with the outside temp at 19F and the HVAC set at "HI" and what I got was L2 used about half the time. L1 will just about keep up with this.

 

No, you're doing it again... more vague, divert, dismiss, restrict. Toyota most definitely did not bet the farm like GM. Toyota's approach has been to diversify, hence the wide variety of choices. GM put everything on Volt and hoped for the best. They rested on their laurels, rather than spread the technology... and wasted tax-credits in the process. Toyota still has an ample supply and they continue to push the prime-able platform. PiP was also just a mid-cycle upgrade with a very limited market rollout. Volt-1 was a full-blown product with wide distribution.

 

SuperChargers are for road trips, as are the Interstates. Hand and glove...

 

As a very conservative owner of a new car, I doubt that I'll ever adopt a fully electric car. The plug in hybrid Prime gives me my security vis a vis an available (gasoline) fuel coupled with a next generation motive source, the electric motor, which I have been able to milk for 95% of my driving needs. I will remain too chicken to go all-electric!! I will stay with Toyota due to my sensational experience with their reliability.
The Prime Advanced and it's offspring (hopefully a light coupe) will be where I will go.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
AChoiredTaste.com

 

I do about half of my road tripping on state highways.

I've been on New Mexico 84, 219, 54 and 285, Wyoming 85, 26 and 16, Kansas 14 and 50, Utah 191, 89 and 9, Arizona 85, 303, 180 and 64, and Colorado 160, 491, 550, 245, 62 and 50. Just in 2017 and 2018.

 

And others have found it.
A comparison of electric vehicle Level 1 and Level 2 charging efficiency - IEEE Conference Publication

The gen1 Volt didn't allow preconditioning on L1. No heat pump, which is still more of the norm for PHEVs these days. Depending on the individual, an L1 EVSE was not supply enough electricity for preconditioning and fully charging for their days needs.

GM predicted 60k sales globally for the Volt in the first year. Toyota predicted 60k sales globally for the PiP in the first year. How is stating this "vague, divert, dismiss, restrict?" And since it was Toyota's prediction, it was made with their intended sales plan. Rewriting history can't spin it. Besides, the greatest sales prediction, and greatest missing of that target, was for Japan.

It was doomed from the start for its purpose, but GM did diversify with the ELR. Which means they offered more PHEV choices in the US than Toyota. They even had more BEV options. For precounter to the Corolla and Levin PHEV in China, there are the Buick Velites.

 

Well, GM is stupid. Prime allows preconditioning even if you aren't plugged in.

 

Someone clearly doesn't understand what "bet the farm" means.

 

That much is obvious

 

It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of those roads have Superchargers on them, but I don’t know...

 

A quick look shows Utah 191 and Wyoming 85 are the only ones that do.

 

My Gen 1 Volt and my Spark EV both allow preconditioning at L2, L1 and without being plugged in.

 

Well, then Trollbait is wrong, instead of GM.