Featured Toyota Is Losing the Electric Car Race, So It Pretends Hybrids Are Better

toyota lost a sale, i lost the prospect of a nice car

 

The Volt wasn't cancelled, its factory was closed, and only GM management knows if the Volt was allowed to end for any reasons in addition to the ones that ended the Lesabre, Impala, and Cruze sedan in North America.

 

I don't think Toyota cares about "losing a race" either, and I wouldn't fault them for it. They're not in business to win races.

 

Hybrids are better than all-electric cars, at least right now. They are cheaper, have longer range, re-fuel faster and can re-fuel at hundreds of times more locations.

Prime: 640 miles range, re-fuel in under 3 minutes at 120,000 locations, blue with white interior.
Model 3 base: 225 miles range, re-fuel in an hour at a few hundred locations, black-only for $2,850 more than I paid.
Model 3 ER: 325 miles range, re-fuel in an hour at a few hundred locations, blue with white interior, costs over $13k more than I paid.

I'd love to have an EV, but I'm not going to put up with their limited-range and high-cost.

Current gas prices correspond to $0.17 per kWh on the Prime. Supercharger rates are $0.28/kWh or $0.26 per minute if charging above 60kW, which means you have to pay more the slower the charger works which is usually something you have no control over.

 

I have mentioned the cost issue with supercharging in the past and get the...."but I have a solar array and charge at home" defense and similar other arguments.

I'm not knocking BEVs all...but the era of 'free' charging is coming to an end. And like you said, gasoline may well be the more cost effective energy source in some situations.

 

Well, charging at home, at least for me, is cheaper than gas ($0.11/kWh). But Supercharging isn't.

Personally, I think owning an EV and not having a place to charge at home is crazy talk. So, at home, EVs are great. But so are plug-in hybrids, and they cost a whole lot less to buy and are cheaper and faster to fuel when you leave town.

 

Supercharging was never intended to allow refueling a BEV as the a sole source like an ICE car. It's meant to make trips beyond the EV' range of local use easier. The vast majority of miles driven on the car will be from charging at home or work.

For those that want a BEV, but don't have access for such charging, it does suck. That issue isn't be ignored by groups pushing plug ins. Yet the gap between households in which a BEV could work, and those actually getting one, is large enough that the lack of non-home charging is an immediate issue for EV adoption.

 

If that were still true, there wouldn't be 41 supercharger stations existing or planned just in the Bay area.



Or about 60 (I lost count) in the LA area:

 

I'm getting mixed results with our BMW i3-REx:

• EVgo or Electrify America - typically 30-45 min for 62-72 miles costing $12-15 is more expensive than the 2 gallons of premium gas but if I'm also taking a bathroom break, snack, and stretch. If overlapped with biological needs, is about the same time.
• ShorePower.com - typically 120 min (2 hr) for 62-72 miles costing $3 is slightly less expensive than the 2 gallons of premium gas. However, 'nap time' is calling my name.

Meanwhile, I'm planning an experiment with a Tesla Standard Range Model 3 and their SuperCharger network. There have been some recent improvements in both but based upon 'weak' sources, I'm expecting to see a block-to-block speed of 60 mph including the 0.5 hour charging stops every 2 hours.

I agree that Teslas are NOT a universal solution. There are places where external charging network(s) do not support practical, long distance trips. Even in my case, there is a gap between Little Rock AR and Tulsa OK where I'll have to take a 2 hour instead of a 0.5 hour charging delay.

Bob Wilson

 

My BMW i3-REx experiments have shown fast DC chargers located where there are shops and restaurants makes a lot of sense. It also avoids having all EVs go to single charger and waiting in line for a charge. For example, we have one fast DC charger in Huntsville and if I want to meet other EV drivers, well there they are. Happily, there are free L2 chargers at local shopping areas where I can take a break before driving back to the fast DC charger ... Huntsville is the largest town you'd ever want to live in.

Bob Wilson

 

I think the Volt was discontinued largely because it wasn’t selling well, and was no longer their premier technology driver.

You’re certainly correct that there are some gaps in Tesla’s SuperCharger map, but not many (in the US and Europe). They have most of the Interstates and the large and medium cities covered quite well.

 

I've never once taken a fuel/stretch/bio stop longer than 15 minutes and 8 minutes is more typical. A 30 minute break is lunch. A 45 minute break is dinner.

Which does very little good if you aren't on an interstate and/or in small towns.

 

To be fair, personal stories of individual’s experiences seem legitimate when Lee Jay takes his edge case and expands it to the whole market.
I, and others, aren’t saying electrics work for everyone. We are saying they work a lot better for some, than others.

 

It's not an edge case - it's the way everyone with a conventional car works. No one stays at a gas station for 45 minutes.

 

just saw an x with mass plates in the parking lot here in orlando. i wonder if they had it shipped down?

 

I disagree based on observation. I'd wager half the people at my local discount gas station sit there for 30 minutes by the time they buy gas, and then go into the convenience store and either buy something or use the facilities. Almost always half the maybe 16 pumps are occupied with cars sitting empty (well in my town trucks which means filling their huge tanks takes even longer) and fuel not running.

As you age, that facilities stop becomes a controlling factor in even when you stop. Add in a leg stretch break. Add in the Powerball ticket. The Vape. The cigarettes. Let alone food.

On a 250 mile trip, I almost always eat on one stop. And that stop has a huge parking lot full of car and truck drivers inside shoulder to shoulder.

So while Lee Jay may not take long, I don't think that is so typical.

 

at 64, my wife and i stop every few hours on our way to florida and back. can't be more than 5 minutes.

and with a 700 mile range, we can fuel up at the end of each day before checking into any hotel we choose, without being restricted by charging station locations.

 

I've been on a ton of road trips (hundreds) and I've never seen a car at a gas station in the middle of Kansas (or wherever) be there for longer than a few minutes.

You get in, start the pump, go to the bathroom while the gas is pumping, and leave when you're done. Most cars that were there when I got there are gone before I leave.

 

Are we arguing about bathroom breaks now?!

Please! Everyone has their own pace of road tripping. I myself try to NOT be at a rest stop any more than absolutely necessary and I pack my own food from home (or a quality supermarket or something) as much as I can to avoid eating rest stop food as much as I can (it's utter garbage, usually). But I can see how people can spend a bit more time to stretch and relax (unimaginable to me, personally) at a rest stop. I am still having trouble imagining a 45 minute charge at one of those horrible places, but to each their own.

Electric car road trips are still very much inferior to gas, even in a Tesla with all its superchargers. Admitting it is the first step to improving the situation. No need to put make up on a pig.

 

that's why some own bev's and some don't yet.

simple enough formula: the longer it takes you to pee, the more likely you are to buy a bev