Why Toyota is not selling electric cars

Tesla needs a Gwen Shotwell: somebody whereby Elon Musk can set the direction and excite the troops and the public, but where she gives it all reality, and calls the actual shots.

 

Shouldn't be too hard, Elon can just move her from one of his companies to another.

Same here, or even a better car at the same price
So far, since 2004, no one has done that better than Toyota and the Prius. Though I hated the ergonomic failure that was the Gen III driver's "cockpit" which is why in 2012 I replaced my totalled 2004 with a 2009 instead of a new car. Only the second used car I have bought, the first being a 5 year old 1969 Volkswagen Squareback from my uncle. Replaced with a '78 Celica GT, replaced with an '86 Mazda 626 GT, replaced with a '95 Honda Odyssey minivan (on the Accord platform) had a 2 Y/O and a newborn then, replaced with an '04 Prius.

If/when Toyota decides to put out an all electric Prius, I will definitely give it a look.

 

Have they actually been, or is it just botched public relations, or the result of hyper scrutiny by the media?

And nuclear power was going to give us free electricity.

The transportation of hydrogen from plant to station is only part of the cost. On site production mostly cuts that out, but the costs of production go up as the small onsite plants aren't as efficient as the large central ones. Then the costs of actually refueling with hydrogen are still high and energy wasteful. To get that about 5 minutes refueling time takes compressing the hydrogen to over 10,000 psi, and chilling it to -40 degrees. Then depending on actual temperatures, and how busy the station is, that about 5 minutes can be 15.

Further clean the air isn't saying anything. The exhaust filters on diesels do the same.

Trucks need more power than a car. So the size and cost of the fuel stack are going to be about the same in proportion; high. The fuel cell cost can be cut following Nissan's strategy, but then you have a BEV size battery.

A natural gas PHEV truck would net most of the benefit of a hydrogen fuel cell, for a much lower cost, and likely better reliability(FCEV bus programs have ended because it took less cost and labor to keep a diesel one running).

 

Haha, I gather she is very much an Aerospace afficionado...

Oh, and my mistake: I gather it’s “Gwynne,” not “Gwen.”

In any case, I guess that that’s more or less what they, or somebody, had in mind with Robyn Denholm, although obviously that move was forced upon them... Also, the idea corporate titles for taking on such a role is exactly Shotwell’s (President and COO), and not Robyn’s (CoB).

That could well be. Still, the monetary dynamics become a little different when a company is buying a vehicle as a money-maker rather than an individual/family as a money sink.

That would certainly help emissions-wise, but would still have some emissions, would be complex, loud when the engine kicks in, and the other things that make EVs good.

 

Sorry, dumb question: Is there no way to delete a post on this forum?

 

I'll look at it, but they better start working on the styling. It was all I could do to warm up to the Gen III. I might be able to accept the homogenized looking Tesla 3...if I had to, but the rest of the offerings out there either very expensive or plain ugly...subjectively speaking.

 

No offense, but I don’t think there’s any factual validity to any of this, just nonsense spewed by hydrogen hypers who are being paid with government money to try and develop the technology

 

Nope, just erase everything

 

At least one FCEV bus program was ended because the hydrogen buses cost more to operate, and that cost wasn't just fuel. Now, technology advances, and fuel cells could become more reliable time, though some of the expense is from using hydrogen, and maintaining the systems for it.

Fuel cells may work in time, but for commercial trucks, they aren't even at the early adopter stage. I think their chances for success will go up once the industry stops insisting on using hydrogen, but competing technologies are also advancing. Just look at cars. The current ICE Camry is rated really close on the EPA to the first Camry hybrid. Compare Side-by-Side

Natural gas engines are spark ignition like gasoline. They are quieter than a diesel. They will only require gas level exhaust treatment, but they start out cleaner than gasoline to start with. Mechanically, a PHEV CNG truck will be less complex than ones currently on the road; their transmissions can be beastly, and complexity further reduced with a series hybrid. EV operation can be limited to lower speeds, and within residential ares to lower the emission and noise impact.

FCEVs aren't silent. I understand the fuel cells can be ticking when operating. Granted, not ICE levels on their own, but the ones in cars have their air supplied by compressors.

On your own, editing it is about the best you can do. Otherwise, report it with why you want a full delete.

 

Somehow I don't expect operating noise to be a factor with a heavy truck. 80,000lbs of canned cat food isn't going to be quiet as it trundles over the potholes, loose manhole covers and bridge joints no matter how you power it. Plus you don't want that heaving brake-squeak and condensation purge to be a complete surprise at the end.

 

You have no idea.
Say good bye to your family if you work for him. Its well known in the engineering world that its a last resort to work there

People aren't aware how hmmm "wired up" that guy is (fill in the blank what im referring to being wired up)

He'll walk in and yell out in general to everyone or spefically ask you to do overtime. But by any chance if you fall asleep or crash because he overworked you....he will fire you. Flat out bully.

I have way too many stories. Your eyes will roll back of your head from disbelief.


Thank god I walked away. Some employees had to pick up coke habits just to survive him. Others picked up the poor man's drug because they can't afford the "cleaner drug"

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

Outside or inside?
People thought the Gen II was ugly, Toyota gave is more angularity in the Gen III. Still ugly? Gen IV I would say is more "sporty" looking, new Camrys and Corollas similar, people still don't like it. Frankly I don't know what shape/style they could give it and not have people say Toyota cars are aren't styled "right".

Personally I don't care much about outside styling of whatever I'm driving, I can't see it anyway . I care about how it drives and how usable the interior is. The effing arch in the Gen III was an abomination.

 

The evils of capitalism, that won’t happen in the Chinese factory

 

I accept the face that Elon may be a "flat out bully". Looks like he was bullied as a child in South Africa. But I have to respect a person who was involved in the development of Pay Pal and sold his share for $165 Million and then took $100 Million of that to develolp SpaceX. He didn't start, but took over Tesla and made it what it is. On the side, he developed Solar City and conceived Hyperloop. Then conceived The Boring Company. For someone to do all that in the last few years, I would give him a lot of slack.

 

agreed, and don't forget the flame throwers

 

good pointers.

No one can run multiple business and not be on wired on some kind of substance (catching on?) I have no doubt he will succeed in some of his business but not in others- for example

The Booring company is a shit show atm. it will manage but I no longer have insider details anymore since all my guys left within 3 months.

its best to see it is from a consumer perspective and simply root for his over all acomplismnets I suspose. sure is not easy after meeting your heroes. You know that saying? Never meet your heros?

but dont stop yourself from enjoying his products

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

A plug in truck can shift more braking to regenerative.

Noise levels is more a factor for local trucks and buses. EV ones are quieter; in the low 50's to low 60's decibels for a bus, the diesel at low to high 70's, and a hybrid and/or CNG somewhere in between.


Then there factors keeping the noise up regardless of drive train; like a Bus's air conditioning and a refuse truck's hydraulics.

 

Why Toyota is not selling electric cars;
“Toyota therefore views hybrids as having the more positive environmental impact because replacing 1.5 million gas guzzlers with hybrids means a much lower carbon footprint than 28,000 full electric vehicles would.” This is based on current battery manufacturing capacity.

Full article; Toyota says selling full-electric vehicles is less eco-friendly

 

Yeah, well, again:

I think the most telling snippet from this video is the map of US states showing where which of pure-gas (no states), hybrid, plug-in hybrid, or pure-electric is most eco-friendly:



So, example, unless you have rooftop solar, it’s not very eco-friendly to drive electric in West Virginia, because it is pretty much a coal-powered state, and burning coal is even worse than burning gasoline. However, in Idaho, which is a heavily hydro-electric powered state, pure-electric is definitely the most eco-friendly way to go. In Texas, where I live, plug-in hybrid is all-in-all best, since it’s mostly natural-gas powered, with a fairly substantial wind-power component too.

However, watch the video to understand more specifically the criteria behind these assessments.

 

Quick poll for the shareholders: Which is better?

A) the profit from selling 1.5 million cars
B) the profit from selling 28,000 cars