Featured CR no longer recommends Tesla

Saw a Toyota ad about getting a Mirai and avoiding the Tesla line.

 

I Googled up: 2019 Toyota Mirai vs. 2019 Tesla Model S | Fuel Cell Toyota Santa Monica

. . .
Fuell Cell MPG & Range

Because of how hydrogen fuel is made, vehicles powered by hydrogen fuel cell powertrains emit zero carbon emissions. In fact, the only emission from a hydrogen fuel cell engine is water, and hydrogen fuel cell cost is quite affordable. And as far as vehicle range is concerned, the Mirai is able to go 312 miles between fill-ups**, while the Tesla S goes between 237 miles and 315 miles, depending on the configuration you choose.
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Bob Wilson

 

I just wish they had more hydrogen refueling infrastructure .

It requires much more planning than a BEV.

Or trips out of your way at least where I live .

But for those in the South Bay, there are options .

 

how is hydrogen fuel made? cow farts? don't they contribute to cc?

 

I understand there will soon be a Toyota contest, a buy-a-ticket drawing:

• 1st Prize - one, 2019 Toyota Mirai
• 2nd Prize - two, 2019 Toyota Mirai

Bob Wilson

 

The last company I worked for we generated it.

But it wasn’t free.

 

farmer brown inc?

 

There company line is / was “Tell me more”.

But they’ve sold off the division I was apart of.

But collecting flatulence could power the generators .

 

or the Koch brothers.
.

 

koal bros?

 

2nd cousins ..... it's a family affair, as Sly & the Family Stone used to sing.
.

 

It was in the same city where they reside .

Their complex is hard to miss.

 

I guess they just don't get that with EVs, the fuel comes to you.

 

It's usually reformed from natural gas in the US, but I think California requires a percentage to be renewable, which doesn't help with the price.

and the, um, solids can be composted for more generator fuel.

 

If you "Build My Model 3" on their site, you can probably have it in less than a week's time. Just did it, and it said February, as in 3 days.

 

Which is what makes Tesla a poor risk for average people. If the only game in town is bankrupt, there will be no game. There is no rush to get into the BEV game. Even the stripped down Model 3 at $35k is way out of the price range of many people. With showrooms being closed, layoffs, poor quality and the other attendant issues with Tesla, I just don't see how they will survive to fulfill "the dream." Whoever picks up the pieces may be able to make something out of mess, but I just don't think Tesla can survive. It's Sears, K-Mart and enclosed malls. Just my opinion, of course. Meanwhile, I am getting 64 mpg in the sunshine with 5 minute fueling in my pink SnowCracker.

As relevant as Hamburgers outsell Tuna Pita Bread in Des Moines, IA.

Actually, I thought the fine print explanation in CR was quite satisfying for their conclusion with Tesla. Quality and reliability are just not relevant comparisons to owner satisfaction. The first two can be measured quantitatively, while the latter is a subjective "measurement" that is skewed by cognitive bias and fanboyism's dark side. No recent purchaser of a luxury car (of any make/model/mode) is likely to make negative comments unless they are wanting to throw in the towel. Heck, I remember when my high school buddy showed up with a 1962 Rambler American 4 Door wagon in seafoam green. He graduated with an average GPA and drove off into the sunset of the Columbia Basin still proclaiming that his car was superior to a 1972 SuperSport with Ram Air.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with modern coal as a fuel in a properly engineered power generation facility. All of you BEV fans need to realize that over 60 percent of grid power in the US is still generated by fossil fuel (coal, natural gas). And over half of the "renewable" grid power is from hydro.

 

Source: What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Code:

Energy source Billion kWh Share of total
Total - all sources  4,034
Fossil fuels (total) 2,536 62.9%
  Natural gas        1,296 32.1%
  Coal               1,206 29.9%
  Petroleum (total)     21  0.5%
    Petroleum liquids   12  0.3%
    Petroleum coke       9  0.2%
  Other gases           12  0.3%
Nuclear                805  20.0%
Renewables (total)     687  17.0%
  Hydropower           300   7.4%
  Wind                 254   6.3%
  Biomass (total)       63   1.6%
    Wood                41   1.0%
    Landfill gas        12   0.3%
    Municipal(biogenic)  7   0.2%
    Other biomass waste  3   0.1%
  Solar (total)         53   1.3%
    Photovoltaic        50   1.2%
    Solar thermal        3   0.1%
  Geothermal            16   0.4%
Pumped storage         -6   -0.2%
Other sources           13   0.3%[/INDENT]

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A super-critical coal plant is substantially more efficient than the legacy coal plants. As they come online, each reduces the amount of coal burned per kWh.

And we also live in an electricity powered house, work in an electric powered office, and go to electric powered hospitals. I'm typing on an electric powered computer communicating over an electric powered communications network. Is there a point here?

7.4% / 17.0% ~= 43.6% :: hydro is less than 50%

The real problem is thinking BEV people are one-dimensional who can be scared off holding up these boogie men. In contrast, I'm after:

• instant acceleration
• quiet ride
• autopilot - driver assistant system
• lowest cost per mile

Bob Wilson

 

guess what - chrysler didn't survive - yet here they are. GM didn't survive. Yet here they are. Debts don't mean things or companies are vaporized. It may just be a new owner, or the debt holder ate the debt. Winners/loosers every day, in the casino of life. Some are less willing to play, & thats ok. Sure glad though, that my great-great-great-great-grandfather was willing to jump into that Conestoga wagon.

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GM definitely survived, it was chapter 11 not chapter 7 and is now a "new" company, but pretty much the same after restructuring. Major cost cutting and management changes puts it in much better shape.

Chrysler didn't really survive, but remember it was the second bail out. It was forcibly merged with fiat with with tax payer money to get fiat to take the deal. FCA (fiat chrysler) stock is now much higher than pre merger valuation of both independent companies. Part of this is due to low gas prices and sales of formerly chrysler designed SUVs and trucks. I would not be suprised if Hyundai or another company bought parts of FCA (hyundai may pay less for it than developing SUVs and trucks that sell in the US well on its own).

This has been the cry of shorters for awhile. The ATP (average transaction price) of a new vehicle in the US was $37K last month. They won't be delivering the standard car with standard pack until later this year (it just opened for orders yesterday), but cost cutting likely makes this profitable. Shorters said that tesla would not be able to make its nearly billion dollar debt payment today, and would be bankrupt. The $920B payment appears to have taken about 1/4 of tesla's cash according to the WSJ. This convertible debt allowed tesla to borrow on the cheap for its development and manufacturing of the model 3. Cash flow from vehicle sales easily covered the debt. Chinese factory appears to have a great deal of chinese debt, but its likely that will also be covered in time from production. The running out of cash losses on the model 3 and the sales peaking long ago are just false narratives of people trying to make money from people selling the stock short. Most of these people have lost a great deal of money.

Tesla does have a high risk not of bankruptcy but of making a mistake and slowing growth is fairly likely. That may cause tesla to merge with another company (maybe google, apple, or a major auto company, or an up and coming foreign company like geely or byd).

I've got to say quality problems are there, and the massive growth puts a strain on the service network. Mine was delivered with doors slightly out of alignment. They had enough rework at the service center that it took a day even with an appointment for them to get my car looked at and repair, and mine was built in october, after many of the problems were fixed. That means I didn't have my car for 2 days. They did give me a loaner of a older more expensive model S P85, so I was fine. I like my model 3 much better, so their is a good chance of cannibalization until they redesign the S, and the model Y will likely cannibalize the Model X even more.

I doubt a tesla bankrupcy would kill plug-ins. The chinese government is massively trying to build an electric car industry. People that drive them seem to like them better. Demand world wide is going to outstrip tesla's production until at least that chinese factory opens.

 

You’re next, ford