Featured Will Piston Engines Get Clobbered by Electrics?

Its good to see that Prius drivers saved so much on fuel & are so rich, they never have to check used EV prices.

 

No. It is because there is only one seller who sets the price. There are no dealers competing with each other. In one sense you'd think this is a bad idea for consumers. But the reality is that in the traditional dealer model the manufacturer just jacks up the MSRP in order to give the dealers some margin to beat each up on in order to make it look like a good deal when you got $3000 off the MSRP.

Mike

 

You ask others for links, but when asked to provide one you decline. I did google search on demand fees and didn't find anything.
Sounds like you don't have any numbers close at hand?

However, here is a Canadian company who thinks that adding plugs to their petrol stations is a win for them.
EV Fast Charge car charging stations | Petro-Canada

I have no idea what the parameters are on demand fees, so it seems you've seen these somewhere, it would be nice to share your source.

 

Maybe not little shops. But how about the 16 pump gas station with convenience store, maybe 30 feet of refrigerators, drink machines, 6 brewing stations, etc. Huge area of pavement usually empty.

 

we used to set the 6 a/c units in our 10,000' office building to come on at different times to keep demand down, it was a big number.

 

If Hill is SoCal Edison, this may be relevant:

https://www1.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/ce329.pdf

 

what are you talkin about. There was a link in the post that you quoted. If you can't find anything re commercial demand charges - just ask - rather than accuse somebody of being a hypocrite - saying they ask for stuff that they don't provide theirself . jeez
There's probably a dozen or more counties in California & I can't look them up all up for you, & most of the pages are so convoluted you wouldn't understand them. Reading tax code formulas. But you can understand this IE - paying nearly $20/kWh
That's the Santa Clara commercial demand fee (PDF screen shot) for commercial sites pulling either 5,000 kwh or more per month or more than 100kWh in any 1hr per month.

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Uhh..ok. However, I think your comment in and of itself is a bit of a rationalization though. In my view it is supply and demand more than anything else. You can still find very reasonably priced vehicles...especially if you don't have your heart set on a particular one. The problem is that everyone seems to want the 'big' or 'luxury' vehicles these days...and the dealers know it. Go against the grain and you can find some bargains.

 

I think Tesla also charges for supercharger use now...correct? At some point the days of 'free' charging, especially at public charging stations, will be behind us. Frankly, it is/was more of a perk for early adopters than anything else.

 

yes, a perk which was (incorporated into the high cost of the new car) reserved for the highest price versions, whether the model x, s, or performance version of model 3. Iirc, many of these perks are now passed on to used car buyers just to the 1st used purchase, & not continuing in perpetuity.
As nice as all that is, the greatest thing, is that the Tesla network is there, as Bob points out above. Quick Chargers are often held hostage to different online companies, that receive much poorer maintenance, even when they're not locked up behind a dealer's fencing. All charge Networks should be as comprehensive as Tesla's Network where you can see on your display screen in the car, how many charge stalls are available at each location, whether the location has only a ½ dozen, or 40 stalls. If you program your GPS for a multi hundred mile trip, it will not only automatically route you - it will display supercharger and high power wall charger locations available along your route, as well as live feeds if units are disabled for maintenance or even lowered power conditions.
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Understand. I think the supercharger network is great. Just pointing out that it isn't 'free' anymore. There are still quite a few out there that don't necessarily know that.

 

How long would "charging station" charging a pure-electric with viable range take, say a vehicle with a 200 mile range?

 

I have time of day billing by choice for household use. In practical terms, that means that in winter i have cheaper electriciny from 1PM to 4PM and from 9PM to 7AM. And I am billed for the two periods at different rates. With the peak demand measured and reported with a surcharge for the peak. So in simple terms, I get three line items on my bill at differing rates. Normal use kwh, peak use kwh and max peak use kw. And in summer it shifts to peak being during the day when AC is at its height.

This is an old rate structure, now grandfathered. I enforce lower use by running a smart energy controller that assures that my high consumption devices don't all run at the same time. They will get sequentially shut down if I am about to exceed my preset threshold. I also know the schedules so I do dishes, washing, drying, even showering etc during off peak hours. I save 10-20% using this plan and help smooth out their demand.

And even with that, I get notices to conserve during very cold and very hot days. When resistance heating kicks in and/or AC is running everywhere.

 

Depends.
"They take about 20 minutes to charge to 50%, 40 minutes to charge to 80%, and 75 minutes to 100% on the original 85 kWh Model S."
Tesla Supercharger - Wikipedia
That's on a 120kW charger, and presumably from near 0%. I think the Teslas with larger packs can charge faster, or least you can get the same amount of range as a smaller battery in a less amount of time. The charge rate for all size batteries slows as they near full.

The CHAdeMO and CCS chargers out there are 50kW or less. VW has 350kW chargers based on CCS, and Tesla will likely roll out something as fast.

Charging will take longer for cars that don't have proper battery cooling.

 

strategically, if you need 200 mile charge miles quickly, you still get a hundred kwh car, which may easily enough have 330 miles of range. That way you recover over 200 miles at a rate of over 300 miles an hour charging speed - meaning you'd get your 200 miles recovered in under 40 minutes with no taper - as you may be 60 or 80 or more miles from Full still. On those rare occasions where you absolutely positively need over 300 miles, it's there.

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So to "fill up" your car at this place it costs about 4 times as much and takes 3 times as long as a fill of a hybrid that gets 40MPG at $2/gal? Can this be right?

 

Maybe. We still don't know what will happen to Tesla prices when they build enough to shrink the waiting list down to near zero. They might adopt a pricing scheme closer to traditional car makers. But what happens to traditional car makers when they have a car model that is in high demand? The dealer and a dealer markup that goes above the MSRP -- just because they can.

Mike