Featured Snow job about EV range in heat and cold

Let's not forget that EVS and ICEVs both have a 12 volt battery that is not immune to the cold, and neither are going anywhere without it. But the one in the EV has an easier job, so should be able to start the car under conditions in which the ICEV one won't.

 

didn't ionic EV do away w/ the 12v? .... choosing to pull power from the lithium pack in stead? ( .... no attempt meant at smearing / exaggerating / or inferring one or the other failed to achieve the best balance - just a question - sheesh)
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Let's not forget cold weather math. Assuming say a 10% cold weather loss, and apply it to ICE as well as hybrids ...

50 mpg in a prius hybrid - 10% = 45 mpg = -5 mpg = OMG, big loss of MPG!!!!
16 mpg in a Tahoe - 10% = 14.4 mpg = -1.6 mpg = hardly any change at all, hybrids are a scam.

Let's just ignore that 45 >>> 14.4. or 16. or 28. or 32.

and yes, I've been told this several times as a reason why hybrids are no good in winter. I'm sure the same applies to BEVs.

 

My aim is eventually to have a 4WD hybrid SUV (hers) and a 4WD EV (mine) in the garage. Efficiency for 90% of the time and virtually unlimited range for the rest of the conditions/trips. But she values plushmobile quietness (I consider her Avalon to be a pig) and my challenge will be finding a car/SUV for her that has:

• quietness (I have a db meter on my phone to test that)
  
• reasonable acceleration
• room and comfort for 5 ladies for a 60 mile trip
• SUV height of seats
• fits a NFL lineman or a NCAA guard in front
  
• a user interface that is traditional in the extreme. She doesn't do techie at all.
• reasonable greenness (not sure she cares, I do)
  
• a price a cheapskate like me can swallow
• safety nannies that don't require any user interaction see non techie above.
• a local to me now dealer. And a wide enough dealer network that when we have to move (age and condition driven) service if needed will be easy.
• Like to keep it around $50k.

For her, when the right vehicle is identified and she confirms it, we are ready to buy. (Suggestions invited) That would free me up to buy "mine" then and it wouldn't have to meet those criteria.. But for now, I just went to 4 stops with a chock full v trunk of recycles and trash and Lidle and Walmart purchases so I have to have a SUV or wagon in the stable.

 

The hybrid did, but the Electric kept the 12 volt.

 

it was an odd set up iirc, the 12v portion of the battery fastened in from underneath the car, and is not 'eliminated'.
it is a li=on battery connected by cables that can be jump started from the hybrid battery by pressing a button on the dash, should it go dead.

 

It is a 12 volt mounted in the traction pack.

The North American market was the first to get it, but the car was released elsewhere first. Those cars got a traditional battery, without self jump starting, that is mounted underneath the car.

Eliminating the lead acid battery saves around 25 pounds.

 

Also the PHEV kept the 12v.

 

Yeah, they both have a Pb-acid one in the back. Cost might be why, but I'm thinking they wanted to use the hybrid's 12 volt battery space for more traction pack capacity.

 

Time will tell if it was worthwhile or not, but I admire the innovation

 

I turn that on its head with them and use cost per mile.
50 mpg @ $2/gal = $0.04/mile
45 mpg @ $2/gal = $0.044/mile
16 mpg @ $2/gal = $0.125/mile
14.8 mpg @ $2/gal = $0.139/mile

So:
at a loss of 10% in efficiency, the 50 mpg car costs an extra $0.40 per 100 miles.
at a loss of 10% in efficiency, the 16 mpg car costs an extra $1.40 per 100 miles.
If gas goes to $4/gal, that becomes and extra $0.80 per 100 miles and $2.80 per 100 miles respectively.

 

you have some typos in your numbers

 

Good catch. Oops!!

Thank you. You assume correctly. Makes me wonder now what I had there. Oh! Never mind. I see it in my notifications now. Thanks again.

 

A good practice. This was so simple I just typed it in a notepad as I did the calculations and then copied & pasted to the forum. I could have sworn I had all the zeros there. Apparently I didn't. <sigh>

At any rate, the point is that when you use cost per mile, you remove the games we can play with statistics.

 

i lose about 30% in winter without heat, so 40% with heat might be conservative. perhaps tell is more efficient though

 

So when it is cold do you guys employ 'manual heat switching' where you turn the heat off at stoplights and such? I do that in my Prius v (wagon) and it helps a lot. Otherwise the engine seems like it is always running. Seems like that would also help in an EV as well...or any car for that matter but I like the fact that I can hear the engine go off when I turn off the heater.

 

i don't use heat at all, unless I'm on a trip long enough to need the engine.

but the engine run time depends on the temp you set and how cold it is outside. i haven't had to switch it on/off to stop the engine, how many miles on your cars? might be a lot colder where you aretooc. average in boston is poly 20's and 30's.

 

Well we were in the middle of the 'polar vortex' a couple weeks ago...and have had quite a bit of weather in the 'well below zero' range. So yep, a lot colder. And I don't do any grill blocking either...and probably should I suppose.