Toyota admits being hurt by Tesla, gives tepid response

I wonder if Toyota is just blaming Tesla to distract from a downturn in their own sales? Tesla is getting beat-up in the court of public opinion, this could be pilling on.

 

more like the court of public media. i don't think the public gives a hoot one way or the other

 

And what makes even less sense is the one highlight is VAG is expanding

Honestly I never understood the draw, the most expensive to maintain pile of a car I ever had came from that direction.

 

and believing the pie in the sky promises (from known liars), while disbelieving tesla reality.

 

I just rememberd an article from a few months ago. If there's any comfort . . . . it aint just Toyota admitting to getting their lunch eaten;
BMW Exec On Tesla's Sale Ramp: It's Putting Pressure On Segment
.

 

But how long will the Tesla can't build enough last? Early US adopters have been exhausted (witness quick delivery times) and then where do the orders come from? China? But not for months and maybe years and at current US prices? I doubt it. Some talk of European orders slowing. And the rebate drops again, the need for service rises with the number of cars on the road. And there are 7 year old Teslas now. Already horror stories at some service centers. As more and more manufacturers produce EVs, will the few service centers be enough? Can Tesla ramp service techs and part inventory and chargers simultaneously at what cost? Does Tesla have the engineering and manufacturing talent to produce several new models, expand into another country and simultaneously cost optimize the < $40k M3? Throw in economy, market, tariff and tax uncertainty.

Or will I buy my EV in 5 years from my local dealer since my brand has thousands of service centers. Read somewhere a projection based on manufacturers claims of plans that there may be the capacity to produce 30M EVs per year in 10-15 years.

Lots we don't know.

 

Completely agree. And it is a big benefit.
But the discussion was over H2. H2 has no advantage compared to electricity in terms of zero emissions in the vehicle. Both have zero. Actually the FCEV is dripping water. Probably not an issue 99% of the time. In cold places it might cause more icy roads or driveways. But this is minor since cold places have to deal with this anyway.

There are numerous advantages of electricity over H2.
Cost, wide availability, in home refueling, at work refueling, many years head start, range and scalability of refueling options (110v, 220v to fast DC chargers) etc.
The primary advantage of H2 is refueling speed. Possibly a weight advantage.

Mike

 

how many people left on the wait list? how many sales per month?

china is getting its own factory

what 'talk' of european orders slowing? data?

 

I like it when others are from Missouri.

 

I like it when they remind me of characters in The parades where I work.


.

 

You mean it doesn’t always rain on me.

 

A few comments.

1. The car industry as a whole is slowing, one of my other posts alludes to everyone laying off and I think it’s because the younger generations anti car cheapskate mentality is finally hitting home like a cultural shift, also the fact that our economy has been in a raiseless expansion with increasing car MSRPs and bad credit practices with a bubble ready to burst might be another reason but we could go on all day on that topic

2. We are in the later part of the early adopters phase as classically defined but I think it unfair to generalize TSLA buyers as early adopters. Tesla has managed to be all things to all people in a very specific segment.
A market segment that has mostly been stagnant or underserved for over 15 years is the overpriced car market .
The two individuals I know who have bought a Tesla are anything but environmentalists and neither has likely owned a reliable and reasonably priced car in their lives.
The one has owned Mercedes, BMW along with a variety of expensive odd cars many of which were neither reliable nor luxurious . When you talk to him it’s about appearances and how the S makes him look / feel.
Classic image buyer.
The 2nd guy bought the Tesla because it’s fast and he likes its looks. Literally no other explanation given.
Neither guy meets the definition of an early adopter since their view of Tesla is that it’s the newest “X” in their car journey be it image or speed or whatever it’s just another car to them, the electric aspect is only the means to their goal.
I am certain there are many other Tesla owners for whom the car meets other criteria but I’m guessing we are

Failing to know the audience

in our thinking that there aren’t folks just buying a Tesla as just another expensive car of which there have been many as long as cars have been made.

So a certain subset of folks apparently buy unreliable overpriced cars consistently and think nothing of it,
Tesla is just another player in that diverse field, there is evidence of pent up demand in what is usually incorrectly called the luxury market, how much who knows but eventually they will reach equilibrium at their price point.

As stated too many unknowns

 

Speaking as the owner of a 2015 Prius and a 2017 RAV4 HV (our daily drivers), I think you should reconsider "your"
pronouncement that my statement is FUD. You are also presuming the tech, infrastructure, use, limitations and price of BEV/FCEV equals that of ICE and Hybrid. Neither do...as I said...at this time. Your fanboy enthusiasm and judgement of those whose needs don't match yours reflect on you... not the products you promote. Not all Prius owners are smug either.

 

I'm not sure this really matters. (of course it is better to have a constant wait list)

The wait list for pretty much every other car is zero, isn't it?
And the wait time is measured in hours.
We have no idea how many car buyers will appear when you can also get a Tesla in hours, not days/weeks/months. But Tesla still hasn't drained the wait list in all locations. Then the wait list for the cheaper model. And by then they will probably start fill the wait list for the Model Y.

 

I think many buy a Tesla for the exclusiveness of the brand, so being production constrained likely helps, not hurts.
Tesla may not realize this, their cars don’t just go to folks who want an EV

 

then there's the wait list of the regular folk ..... people that resist the impulse of the new car ... preferring to save at LEAST 20% by letting others take the brand new car hit - as soon as it drives off the new car lot. Balancing price with remaining factory warranty - maybe then buy extended warranty.

 

Actually, the tech, infrastructure, use, lack of limitations and price far surpasses that of ICE and hybrid...for me and my wife.
Of course, this isn’t the case for everyone.

The answer to this debate depends upon weather I am an outlier, representative of 2%, 10%, 50% or 90% of the car buying market.
I don’t know the answer to that, but I have my guesses based on talking with thousands of people about EVs.

 

Well the total ownership cost of a BEV is expected to equal that of a ICE car in Europe this year.

 

then there's the non wait list wait list for people like me waiting for the 35k version