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From o2 sensor to engine replacement in 10 days?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by FantasticalMagicOne, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. FantasticalMagicOne

    FantasticalMagicOne Active Member

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    That's why I'm suspicious of the final diagnosis. They (dealership) changed an upstream sensor on a Monday. Did a diagnostic on Tuesday finding the catalytic converter problem as well as identifying that I needed the downstream sensor replaced. Later that week (th or fri - can't remember), they replaced the cat and the sensor. The following week they reported my engine was shot.

    They spent all that time diagnosing the car, each time identifying issues with the non-hybrid part of the car, and then spent plenty of time working on the car and no one noticed a ruined engine?

    Before I got the 2nd opinion, I asked the dealership to test the HV battery. I wasn't going to replace an engine and then battery on a 10yr old car. I'd eat the cash already spent, and search for a new vehicle. The manager told me that would be costly because of all the work that comes with testing the battery, and gave me a lengthy explanation on what they need to do to get the battery out of the car. He shouldn't have assumed that I'd have no idea how to test the voltage on the blocks*. After having my other half call, he changed his tune very quickly. According to them, all the blocks tested fine, but no evidence was provided that the test was actually done. Just a voice mail from a man who had, unbeknownst to him, been caught lying to my face. One who was trying to sell me an engine replacement, so of course the battery is fine. -_-

    Battery doesn't seem fine to me, but from what I understand, they don't just go all of a sudden. There are signs, and it's hard to believe that this just happened to start when I drove off the dealership lot. That'd be one hell of a coincidence.

    *Remember I didn't have techstream yet, so I was unable to run the test myself. Also, don't have torque pro or a blue tooth odb2 reader.
     
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    You had dealer install a cat for $2000+ and it's still loud? Something doesn't seem right, something is leaking from the manifold to exhaust
     
  3. FantasticalMagicOne

    FantasticalMagicOne Active Member

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    Dealer installed the cat and both sensors, then the HV battery started doing this as well as the idling issue. I know the engine works in tandem with the electronic components of the vehicle, and if they screwed up either one...

    I know something isn't right here, and I don't need any convincing that it has to do with their repair. But how do I rectify it? I know they're supposed to stand by their work, but they're blaming this on a bad engine. They've no intention of taking any kind of responsibility for this. So where do I go now?
     
  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I understand the car has logged 170K miles.

    Are any warning lights on now?
    When was the last time the iridium spark plugs were replaced?

    A good idea to clean the mass air flow sensor (using MAF sensor cleaner spray) and the throttle body interior (using a clean cloth sprayed with throttle body cleaner, do not drown the throttle body in cleaner fluid.) Remove the air cleaner housing for access to the throttle body interior.
     
  5. FantasticalMagicOne

    FantasticalMagicOne Active Member

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    How does this "learning period" work? I haven't heard of it until this thread.
     
  6. FantasticalMagicOne

    FantasticalMagicOne Active Member

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    Yes, 170k. No warning lights. Had the spark plugs replaced in May.

    I picked up the CRC twin kit recommended by another here. Thank you for the tips on how to clean them. I'll be taking care of that tomorrow.
     
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  7. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    When you take the power away from the computers, they have to “relearn” how to behave or act.

    Some will do this quickly or with a short number of cycles, others take time.
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    In case you are not aware of the MAF sensor location, it is secured with two little Phillips screws to the air cleaner housing. You need to remove the sensor for cleaning.

    After it is removed, you will see an amber bulb (which may be grey if covered with dirt) and two very fine wires. Do not touch the wires with anything other than the cleaner spray. Those wires provide the sensing capability of the air flow.

    You will notice a little rubber O-ring which seals the sensor to the air cleaner housing. Make sure that is in good condition before you reinstall the sensor.

    After you clean the MAF sensor and the throttle body interior, make sure that the ducting which connects the air cleaner housing to the throttle body is tight and secure. You do not want any air leaking into the system downstream from the MAF sensor.

    If the air cleaner filter is dirty (look at the bottom of the filter to see the dirt) then replace it with a new filter. If the new filter is not Toyota-branded, make sure that it fits tightly so that no dirt can bypass the filter. Make sure that the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) hoses are tight and there are no leaks in the hoses.

    You asked about the engine ECU having to learn. The reason that the ECU needs to learn is because there are no adjustments with respect to engine idle speed, engine ignition timing, fuel/air mixture, etc. Each engine is slightly different with respect to throttle plate resting position, the amount of internal wear, etc. Hence the engine ECU will make these adjustments based upon its various sensors. This needs some time to occur after 12V power is restored.
     
  9. FantasticalMagicOne

    FantasticalMagicOne Active Member

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    Thank you. I appreciate the tips on the MAF, this is the first I've heard of the rubber O-Ring.

    I had the air filter replaced in November when I had the oil changed, but I will definitely inspect it anyway.
     
  10. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    So, after you've done the cleaning, put the engine intake back together and take a relatively long drive on the freeway, 20 miles or more, assuming no warning lights appear. Then see how the engine behaves driving around town.
     
  11. FantasticalMagicOne

    FantasticalMagicOne Active Member

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    Thank you, so I should take her out a few more times? I'm nervous to leave the block I live on because the road I live off of has a steep hill to the left and another to the right, and I'm worried that the car may not make it back up either hill.
     
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Well, see how the car performs as you drive around your neighborhood. I don't want you to get into trouble, but you need to give the car a nice run to assess its performance after you've done all this good work.
     
  13. FantasticalMagicOne

    FantasticalMagicOne Active Member

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    I guess I'll have to take her out sometime. I'd be in big trouble if it just shuts down like I've read about some others doing. The expressway I live off of is no joke, and there would be a fair amount of stop and go driving before I got to a highway if I choose the other direction.

    My neighborhood, if I want to avoid those hills, is literally one block. It's very secluded here, but I doubt circling a half mile a few times is going to accomplish what needs to be done.
     
  14. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Just take it for a spin down the Dallas Memorial Highway and head toward Wilkes Barre. Let your significant other know your path and have your cell phone in case you run into issues.

    While there is some gradient, getting a good run to assess the situation and allow the computers to relearn their settings is important.

    But there are many ways to get to the city from Dallas but the cross valley expressway will be a good run.
     
  15. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    The learning part is no big deal, all you have to do is drive the car at various speeds and it does it on its own..
    Once the 12 V battery is disconnect you are doing a hard reset of the cars computer. This clears all the codes in the cars computer but also all the things that it has learned. Once you start driving it again and complete what is refered to as a Drive Cycle the learning process is complete. The computer in the car has sensors like your O2 sensor, MAF and a bunch more that are all inputs to the computer, If one of them gives bad info sometimes the computer just does what it's told and the car runs bad.
     
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  16. FantasticalMagicOne

    FantasticalMagicOne Active Member

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    I was talking about the cross valley, I don't go to WB any other way. I'm the only one here during the week, so I'm on my own if I run into issues. Which will be okay if I don't die and make it home before the kids do.
     
  17. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Before @theelectricme comes on here, we are almost at 200 posts

    Getting back to the subject, after you clean the maf sensor and throttle body, go for a good 20 minute drive to warm up the car. See how it performs.

    You might have to disconnect the negative battery terminal for a minute after cleaning the MAF sensor to reset the car. If you don't, you might get the sensation that your engine will not idle properly and want to die
     
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  18. FantasticalMagicOne

    FantasticalMagicOne Active Member

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    Thanks for the tip. I'd rather not participate in desiring death at this time in my life. I'd prefer to avoid racing the death clock and continue racing the school bus.
     
  19. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Let's put this on the back burner until after your cleaning tomorrow.

    Do you have the paperwork with the parts replaced? You can ask for the dealership service manager to address the issue if it persists, they should have a shop foreman check the installation. It should not be loud, if it is, there's a leak.
     
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  20. FantasticalMagicOne

    FantasticalMagicOne Active Member

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    Yes, to the paperwork. The dealership service manager was the one who fed me the bull about the engine and then the battery. My other half called and left a few messages since then (when the downstream sensor code was present before the 12v was disconnected the first time), and he didn't answer or call back.

    But, I agree, let's see how tomorrow goes and proceed from there.