Featured Toyota Won’t Make A Proper EV Because Dealers Say It Won’t Sell

So wouldn't the smart play be to let Tesla make a mistake in recessionary times, let the market value tank and then buy them up? That would catch Toyota up pretty darn quick.

 

The plug is normal CCS type 2 plug, they just increased the voltage up to 920 V. Only works on cars with 800V battery system, for now Porsche Tycan is the only vehicle that I know of. Liquid cooled cables are nothing new, as far as I know Tesla already use them.

 

You joke, but Toyota Australia is convinced their market is not interested in a plug-in Hybrid so they do not offer the Prime. @alanclarkeau and others say they are wrong.

 

Surely - TOYOTA will take their heads out of the sand (though apparently ostriches don't really do that anyway). They've got to be have been watching almost every car manufacturer and every car market ramp up EVs and PHEVs. I reckon they'd have some massive team working on it right now - based on their experiment with the RAV4-electric.

 

Remember, the last RAV4-EV had a Tesla drivetrain, not Toyota.

 

Yes, the 2nd generation was developed somehow in conjunction with TESLA - but the 1st Gen was a TOYOTA "thing".

[ Toyota RAV4 EV - Wikipedia ]

 

no doubt toyota is. just not making all the hype most other companies are.

you can say the market is ready, and we'll have all sorts of ev's 10 years from now, like most companies are doing.
or, you can say, the market is not ready. they both mean the same thing.

 

You mean dealers are not ready to kill their cash cow.

 

Yes, if every one of the suppositions you list happens.

A) Tesla recession happens (will undoubtably happen, but when).
B) Tesla makes a big enough mistake, at that time, that the company can’t support themselves.
C) Toyota can afford to purchase Tesla
D) Toyota is smart enough to buy Tesla
E) Toyota is the highest bidder


Until all those events align, Toyota will be loosing market share.

 

right, would you?

 

You mean they will die off like the buggy whip makers?

Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

We can only hope...

 

Many have said Apple should have bought Tesla years ago. No company has been in a better financial position to do so and Apple has certainly remained very interested in this market. They continue to poach Tesla talent, among many examples.

Makes one less hopeful that less well capitalized and less interested Toyota would or could do so.

 

Toyota studied the mainstream market carefully, rather than listening to enthusiasts. They know that the bottom-line is a challenge anyway. Dealers taking on inventory that requires extra effort to sell and provides only a razor-thin profit in return wouldn't be appealing.

Volt enthusiasts hated me for pointing out that dealers were the true customers, not those who end up owning the vehicle after purchase. It's a cold, hard reality GM learned the difficult way. We see how that worked out.

Know your audience.

 

I agree, it's a huge pile of ifs, and I'm not suggesting that Toyota or anyone else actually has a plan to do it. Nor do I necessarily desire that outcome. Just pointing out that sometimes the engineering and the planning strategies and the great ideas all get swept away by a business decision.

My own interpretation of the tea leaves suggests we (global economy) are headed for some rough years, but I don't know enough about the carmaking business to anticipate any specific outcomes... just that I'm expecting some consolidation.

 

Toyota's in house BEV at the time of the gen2 Rav4 EV was the iQ EV. It's EPA range was just 38 miles. They cancelled sales to the general public before it even got to the dealers.

And Toyota was as willing to crush the leased ones as GM did to the EV1.

 

Well, if you like conspiracy theories, the following is actually true. Although the first generation electric RAV4 may have been a compliance vehicle, the reason they stopped making it has ties to the EV1.

GM owned the company behind the technology for the EV1, including the battery technology. They sold the patents for the batteries to the oil companies. Texaco sued Toyota for its use of NiMH batteries in the electric RAV4, and won, something like 30 million dollars. Toyota, and any other car manufacturer, were not allowed to use these batteries in any electric car.

Gee--now why would they do that when they could have made money licensing the technology to Toyota?

 

Now that Battery tech is no longer something that can stop electric propulsion, the best that powers that be can do is to dump the cost of oil Vis a vis removing as many environmental projections as possible. First, you put an Oklahoma oilman as head of EPA, then the oil Lobby strong arms Congress to try to remove Environmental Protections in place since the 1970s. With cheap oil, who would want an electric car anyway?
These tactics are not new, they remind me of the heady days when Microsoft would give away a free browser so that it could destroy Netscape Navigator. It would give away Microsoft Word in order to put wordperfect out of business. Give away stuff for free, and why would you want the product that cost any money? If you make gasoline virtually free, there's no need for a plug. Bwahahaha ..... Suckers.
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spot on my friend. resistance is futile

 

Because Toyota and the others didn't have any real interest in selling BEVs at the time either. Toyota wasn't forced to crush the leased Rav4s. They could have sold them to the leasee or as used, and they did so after public pressure to stop the crushing. Toyota could have switched to lead acid batteries if they really supported the BEV. EV1 started with those, and other BEVs for sale in Japan were using them. They even could have expanded sales outside of the compliance states while the ZEV program was still in effect.

Then Toyota could have put in a bid to buy the patent themselves. Remember, they had the Prius out on the market in Japan, and arriving in the US during this time. So they had other interests in NiMH technology.

 

I think you are being unfair in blaming Toyota when the oil companies forced them to stop making the car. And when there was another viable battery, they did try again, using Tesla's Lithium batteries.

So they did try, when few other companies were trying, even if it was only for a compliance car. What you can fault them for is giving up after the second car, when no one was forcing them to stop making it. They appear to have given up on fully electric cars right when it looks like the market is taking off, and the market for hybrids is dropping. We don't really need to blame them, though--the marketplace will meter out the appropriate punishment for their shortsightedness.