Featured 2020 Corolla Hybrid Sedan (Yes, for the US)

Not weird lol, looks like the Model 3 is a great car on paper and we have only heard good things about it from people thats driven one, only thing i wish SO BAD it had was HUD... Having to look to the side on that huge screen just to see ur speed is a little stupid... also wished in such a high tech car that it had 360 cameras. Musk have said they could program a 360 camera in using the cameras thats already on the car, but the image would be red, black and white.

 

Those sound like great hacks that DIY folks are probably already talking about doing in Tesla forums... There's plenty of cameras facing in all directions on Model S and Model X Tesla. Not sure about Model 3 but camera upgrades is what the challenge is, not mounting new cameras, though that could be a fun project too.

 

I think you make some good points, but it's not an issue of battery density being too low and costs too high... The real issue is they had an exclusive deal with Panasonic for NiMH and the patents that kept other auto makers out of their market for a while. And looking forward, Toyota doesn't want to use other manufactures patents by way of licensing or in Tesla's case sharing, they want to be the ones controlling the market of the next generation of technology, so they decided to focus on hyrdogen fuel cells, which is starting to look like a big blunder that they still refuse to back down on.

 

No. Even today, cost is still a constraint. Plug-In offerings competing directly with traditional vehicles isn't realistic yet. Watch the struggle as tax-credit phaseout takes hold.

The entire industry is still at least that far away from offerings that are both affordable & profitable.

Toyota's edge is that they already have a popular choice that could become plug-in only. That's a natural next step for Prius... hence the obvious effort to focus on affordable & profitable.

 

sure, sure, I mean the tesla model 3 can't compete with other 4 door sedans. hmm. It was the leader in terms of dollar volume in the US the last 2 months of any 4 door sedan? I guess it can compete. A 10kwh battery would probably cost tesla $2K, that seems quite a affordable option if toyota would put such a battery in a dedicated phev. That is much less than it cost toyota for a small nimh battery pack when the prius was launched. It does have tax incentives as does every possible toyota plug-in, but it phases out next month. I expect it to compete without subsidies in 5 years ;-) Toyota will still be subsidized by the US and Japanese government in 5 years, so there is that. Subsidies per car are much higher per mirai or clarity fuel cell than any tesla.

I don't know why you need to add another measure. The original prius was not considered affordable by the masses. It was subidized heavily. It was not profitable for awhile.

The Tesla hit profitability last quarter ;-) Affordability, probably in 5 years. Not far off.

 

There is 4 cameras on the model 3 I believe, 8 if u get the upgraded autopilot, just like the S and the X. And yea, I have seen these DIY dudes trying to make that work. But instead of messing around with that, I would’ve just bought a 200 dollars 360 camera, mount a front camera, camera under the mirrors and a rear camera and add that to the video input (I think the Tesla has multiple video inputs?), and just add it aftermarket as I’ve done on my mother’s 2016 auris. If u spend 700 dollars u get this cool 360 3D camera from the BMW’s and Audi’s. My dad is thinking about getting a model 3, so we’ll see if I’ll do some DIY on that haha.






And Toyota just shared some new pics of the sedan, it will come to EU aswell, not just USA. Toyota seems to finally stop having multiple different models at different markets and start having the same models at different markets. We still don’t have the highlander, tundra or the Avalon tho, but I don’t think those would’ve been great sellers here anyways... maybe the tundra could’ve been a good seller but who knows...

 

Every model 3 has 9 cameras. The special one that is added for the model 3 over the S/X is a cabin camera, and I don't think that is implemented yet. The other 8 are the same. There is the rear camera displayed when backing up, and the 3 forward facing cameras (narrow 250 m range, main 150 m range, and wide 60 m range) that complement the radar for all versions of autopilot. Version 9 also uses the other 4 cameras which are side front facing and side rear facing on both sides.

Sure, I don't think tesla really cares to give that feature so that seems like an easier way to do it. This is the first car that I have no thoughts of modifying.

But back to the corola hybrid ;-)

 

I remember so many auto reviews that tried to define the "hybrid premium" by comparing a Prius to a stock, no options Corolla:
Compare Side-by-Side

There was no attempt to match standard Prius features, alloy wheels, rear spoiler, automatic transmission to equivalent options on the Corolla. Then we got a 2003 Prius and put 130,000 miles on it until 2016. We gifted it to our housekeeper.

Bob Wilson

 

The Corolla hybrid could mean Toyota now can achieve a mass market and profitable hybrid. They need the cost though, to be enough different from the Prius and Camry, but given the Corolla starting price and feature list it will be difficult. I would think a 1.5L would be required to differentiate. Prius models need to maintain the different and upscale segment. More than just unique styling, like PHEV and advanced/futuristic user interface (like Tesla). Near term sales of Prius and C will continue downward.

I am waiting to see the details of the RAV4 hybrid to see if it can achieve a 40+mpg city and highway.

 

Will it be sold in Japan? If so I bet tops the market there. We need to look at Japan+USA Prius sales to see how Prius is doing.

Gimme a bulbous rear-end Corolla hybrid wagon, aka Pris Gen2/3 rival.

 

Yeah sadly, sedan is a deal breaker for me.

 

Ignoring the word "directly" is blatant greenwash. When there is no longer a tax-credit, then it will be direct.

Again, that's a load of greenwash. Having a $7,500 incentive makes the measure of acceptance misleading.

 

Well no, it is not. Adding extra stipulations that it has to compete directly in terms of dollars with a base corolla hybrid is a way to cherry pick your data. You have been pretending I ignored your statement, no not at all, I just reject the premise. See bob's statement. When he bought his gen I prius he was willing to pay for for what it was than a similar sized car, because he saw the value. This is what people are doing with the model 3. Tesla already outsells all the luxury car markers in the US.
Yep, Tesla Is Gobbling USA Luxury Car Market — 8 Charts & Graphs | CleanTechnica

I don't think you actually know what that word green wash means. First they said no one wants a big battery plug in. Then they said no one has time to charge. Then they said you can't make it profitably.

My tesla model 3 is powered by wind and solar. It actually does reduce my carbon footprint versus even the prius that my gf is now driving (probably temporarily, her car was stolen and trashed when she got it back).

In 2019 in Texas where I live, a 8.8 kwh prius prime will recieve $7000 in federal and state subsidies. I will receive a $7500 tax credit this year for a 80 kwh tesla model 3. In the first half of 2019 texas residents will get $3750, the second half $1875 which are much smaller incentives than will be available on a toyota phev. Build it from the ground up and a 10 kwh toyota phev would sell much better, but the compromises result in much lower sales. Yes the prime is more affordable, but given tesla's battery costs less than $200 kwh at the pack level, a 10kwh battery should only cost toyota $2K. Its more right now because toyota wants air not liquid cooling but that can be fixed. They can do it, but they have been slow, and if they don't have one soon, incentives will expire for them like tesla. The original prius had bigger incentives from the japanese government, and that was a good thing. It was not greenwashing.

If a efficient corolla or civic is traded for a prius or corolla hybrid, its not a huge amount of oil savings each year. If a tesla model 3 is bought instead of a bmw 3 or lexus gs that is a much more significant oil savings. Yeah it may not be huge in terms of ghg, but the grid is getting greener, and people like hill and I use renewables.

 

Ok, instead I will call it cherry-picking. Looking backward, instead of the targeted market going forward, is intentionally misleading.

You know all too well Toyota's rollout of 2020 Corolla will be aimed at their customers who are looking to replace their older model with a new one.

There won't be any tax incentives then. It's direct competition comparing traditional model to hybrid.

 

This is true for nearly every hybrid sold in the US.

Fuel prices help sell hybrids in those markets. European sales are also benefiting from the backlash against diesels. IIRC, they'll also have the hybrid as an option for the wagon, which will avoid the import tariffs on the Prius. Closer to a SUV in utility than a sedan, a wagon hybrid would likely do better in the US, but it would be competition for the Prius and Rav4 hybrid.

A like to like comparison is easier now, and a full hybrid option costs at least $2000. Many here don't see the value in that. More options in the segments people want would help, but hybrid sales will remain sluggish without the fuel cost incentive.

If gas prices haven't increased by then, the hybrid will lose in the US.

 

Here in Norway i can promise u the only version that will be sold is the 1.8L hybrid and the 2.0L Hybrid, i dont think there will even be a petrol option cause hybrids and EV`s r so popular here. Diesels have gone from being the "go buy car" in 2008 to only stand for 14% of the new car sales here in 10 years (which kind of sucks for the once who bought them in 2008, since in 2008 the guvernment here told people to buy them since they were "the future"... But o boi they were wrong... which they have admitted now). October 2016 there was registred 10 000 cars in Norway, 2500 of them were EV`s, in october 2017 that number raised to 3500, then in october 2018 it raised again to 4500 (38% of the total sales) out of 11 000 (the raise from 10 000 to 11 000 cars in total was just EV`s alone), so EV sales r really raising fast here. I actually think the PHEV china gets wouldve been a better seller here then the 1.8L hybrid... in october 2017 there was registered 4462 Hybrids here, that has since dropped by over 1100 cars (26%) and EV sales have gone up 1200 cars in october 2018, so clearly the EV sales is taking over the diesel sales and hybrid sales, petrol is still selling just a bit more tho. Our guvernments plan is that within 2025, 90% of the cars on the road in Norway will only be plug in hybrids and EV`s, knowing that, i honestly think its weird toyota didnt consider selling the PHEV here...






There may say something wrong heres since its 5am in the morning lol

 

Is there the political will and public support for legislation in Norway to ban non-hybrid and diesal vehicle sales yet? I read that EU is going to ban diesel in cities soon? Seems to me the only way we're going to get auto-makers to change their planet-destroying ways is to ban them from selling vehicles that pollute more than the other ones they sell. What's your sense of it in your country?

 

Well... From what ive heard all pure diesels and petrol cars will be banned in 2042. Our guvernment have removed tax from EV`s and given EV`s some other advantages, like driving in the bus/taxi lane, not paying tollbooths and stuff like that. But diesels will most likely be banned from driving in cities yea, diesel is the first thing that dissapears, they may be less harmful for the enviornment, but theyre more harmfull for people like me with asthma. They release something i dont remember what was called, that makes people with breathing difficulties react and start heavy breathing and stuff.

And yea... Mhmm.. ours look more "clean" and "elegant" while urs look a little more aggressive... I hope we get both aswell lol, since its said to be the exact same car... Maybe its the 2.0L hybrid that will get the "aggressive" front bumper? Or maybe the normal petrol version will get it, so its easy to tell it apart from the "elegant and fast hybrid"? lol


USA



EU




I also noticed something else lol, will urs have Tesla taillights? LOL


USA



EU



Its also said the USA rear end will look like this...



Its also said to have this front bumper...



I dont think the full design and customazation list is fully revealed... cause there is ALOT of different designs, wouldve been cool if toyota did offer a few different designs tho, the current customazation on toyotas at their website is honestly shit...

 

I'm guessing its the NOx emissions. Gasoline engines also produce them; nearly any fuel in an ICE can make them. They are higher in a lean burning and hot engine though.

Europe's regulations for NOx from diesels was less strict than the US's, and still is to a degree. So more was allowed into the environment on paper before the differences between tests and real world use, and cheating. Which gets compounded by the number of diesel cars there.