Why can't Toyota develop a remote app separate from SafetyConnect for non-Advanced owners

Well, they certainly can, but probably feel it will raise the price too much

 

The Safety Connect package includes the cell phone radio modem which is what allows the app to communicate with the car. That's why it's tied to Safety Connect which is only on the Advanced Trim.

 

Yeah, I agree. Entune is bad and Toyota infotainment systems are some of the worst. Probably not something they could retrofit, but Toyota leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to techie features.

 

I don't know of any vehicles that allow an app to control the car that lack cellular connectivity.

Is this a thing?

 

Maybe Cellular is considered more secure that BlueTooth or WiFi?
Not sure I'd want my car to be a rolling WiFi Hot Spot aka Hackers Delight.
That aside the distance limitations for the vast majority of users may be
too restrictive.

 

They've sold you the wrong car, or at least the wrong trim. Undo/trade/swap that transaction, it would ultimately be cheaper and less frustrating than working out a bluetooth/wifi alternate control system.

 

If they did then they'd sell less Advances.

What ever happened to the days when they gave you a page of check boxes that you could select to build your car (for instance, go to chevy and build out a corvette... there's a gazillion different things you can select)?

 

I am sure they could, but they won't. I think Toyota made the remote app and Safety Connect along with a few other features the Advanced trim specific features for selling points. For me, SafetyConnect package was the reason I definitely did not want Advanced trim. Giving unknown Toyota service operator an ability to snoop on my car location or even on conversation taken place in the car does not make me feel at ease.

 

The Corvette is a nostalgia car, it fits that it would still be sold via nostalgia methods. I understand Dodge also still offers a lot of individual option choices on their remaining cars.

I support automotive individuality but economics dictate that it is best left for the toys rather than the transportation.

 

On the other hand, if I were in an accident and unable to help myself, I would not mind at all that the car gives my exact location to a dispatcher. If you don't want "big brother" knowing where you are, you also need to turn off your cell phone, since the cell system has to know where your phone is for it to be able to deliver calls to it. That's how they caught OJ Simpson years ago, and that was before smartphones. Now, with the GPS in smartphones, they can be even more precise.

 

I understand usefulness of the system for intended purpose, but still have problem with system that can invade privacy so easily, whether intentional or unintentional. Indeed, in the age of connected world, it's very difficult to keep privacy. Maybe in vain, but I try to keep my sanity by turning off my phone GPS, using VPN to connect to internet, deleting Facebook account, and by not using Google Home or Amazon Alexa.

 

I take it you don't have a Amazon Echo, Google Home, Sonos One, iPhone, Android Phone or the like.

 

None of these, except Android phone which I use as tablet for useful apps over wifi, but GPS is turned off most of times. Sonos One... never heard of.

 

There are some components of the GPS system in cell phones which cannot be turned off. For example, if you call 911, the phone WILL send your GPS coordinates, regardless of whether you turned off GPS for applications. And there is some question about whether this emergency feature can be remotely triggered, like to locate a missing/kidnapped person via their cell phone. And even if you take GPS out of the picture completely, your cell phone registers with the nearest cell site, so the system can direct incoming calls to you. By triangulating among the nearby cell sites which your phone can talk to, your location can be pinned to a fairly small area. Again, this is part of the basic functionality of how cell systems work, not part of some nefarious scheme to invade your privacy. The only way to disable it is to turn off your cell phone.

 

Thankfully, I live in area of US where cell signal is very patchy. For this reason, cell phone or smartphone (at least telecommunication part of the smartphone) is not very useful gadget for most of my daily life. I think even if I had PRIME Advanced trim, I am most likely to be out of cell signal area most of time, including my residence.

 

I *know* that's the case... it's just sad that it is. I suspect that will actually change in the future. With people building cars, it's easier to standardize, but with robots, there's no real difference if something was selected or not, the robot will just pick and place what ever is needed. Hopefully those days will come back!

 

It's not that they can't, but they won't because it is not as profitable. The bean counters at Toyota (and every major maker for every non-niche vehicle) know exactly how many people are interested in buying their car and for what reasons. They know that there are people that want remote climate connectivity but don't give a crap about the safety connect calling in an accident. Then there are those that don't give a crap about remote climate, just want the safety connect. This is true of every option "package". They want radar cruise control, couldn't care less about active lane keep steering. Or even back in the Gen-2 days, if you wanted GPS you got bumped into a way high package just for that. They know this. Good consumers know this. They know they can make you pay more for a simple feature because it is in a "package" and the sales teams then have the ammo they need to persuade you that it's a package and it would be a steal at that price.

As mentioned, a niche vehicle allows you to do whatever you want. Porsche is famous for this. Pick anything you want and you can track YOUR car through the entire build process. Even pick it up at the factory test it out and have it shipped to you later. You pay market rate on everything (i.e. NO negotiations) and you pay 100% upfront in most cases. Rare cases on some of the UHNW brands if they know you (or the public knows you), they may concede on the 100% upfront thing, because you probably have spent a few million over the years with them.

Many cars have WiFi hostpots now. And because those hotspots are through the cell connection which is used for other systems, there is a physical path from the WiFi hotspot of the car to any system (like the brakes/steering). It is just a matter of hacking it. Cell is the standard interface because people expect it to work wherever they go. You can't tell people that your $3k option to turn on the heater in the winter only works if you park 100ft away from an unsecured open hot spot.

Doesn't matter. If your radio is on (the chip inside that deals with bluetooth, wifi, and cell) the e911 reception is active as is basic triangulation data. It works on any carrier, not just the one you pay for service. It also usually works on a lower frequency. And when the icon shows no bars or even the "X" showing no signal, you are still connected. There are very few places in the US (actually none that I am aware of outside of the radio free zones and a couple US secure areas) that have no reception. It may be too low of a signal to carry data transmission like a voice call, text message, or internet. But the tower knows exactly who's IMEI pinged it and exactly what your RSSI is. That means 1 tower can pin you down to a "donut" shape centered around the tower. The width of the donut is the tolerance on the RSSI beacon. You are almost always within more than 3 towers. With 2 towers you are pinned down to 1 of 2 overlapping regions within the 2 donuts. With 3 towers you are within the overlapping region of 3 donuts which is only 1 location and a pretty precise location. A "bad" reception quality indicator may be 100ft. That is terrible today, but if you'e in the middle of nowhere, it is possible that's what you're located on. I think being located down to a patch of land half the size of a normal house compared to the total land surface area of the earth is pretty good and means you have 0 privacy.

I happily trade such false hopes of privacy for the convenience of Google knowing everything.

 

It is perfectly fine a cell phone can triangulate my location for emergency by appropriate authority. But they don't have to go through an extraordinary effort to locate me. I am either at my home or at work 99% of times with my phone turned on, and rest of times when I am not at either places, I do not have phone turned on unless I need to make a phone call for some reason on a road. Google may know everything about my google handle name, but there is difference between anonymous data and real personal information. I just do not want to give that privilege to some unknown corporate dispatch. I know it's all in vain, but I have no regret for losing such convenience.