Annoying VW Diesel...

you're being unrealistic if you think you're going to find another car that will go 700,000 trouble free miles. you have set the bar too high.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a few million people driving stinky old VW's and care about them enough to make a web forum. The Prius is an everybody's car, including those that pay the quick lube place to fill their blinker fluid tanks every 2000miles.

Also any new vehicle is an expensive beast. It is a computer first and a car second. Compared to an old anything that you could fix with bubble-gum and garbage you found on the side of the road.

Ontop of that the Prius holds its value really well. So when you're looking to buy a cheap one... Why is it cheap? There are literally millions of these things on the road. Some have been flood damaged, or maintained by gorillas that don't understand what a Prius needs. There is lots of nuance in used vehicles.

I can put this in car related terms. You live in Gunnison. You know what a mountain looks like. You know what snow is, and you know how to drive in it even in your VW thing. Next time a slight dusting of snow appears in Georgia just sit back and read the news stories about how everything is shut down. State has declared an emergency. Cars are spun out everywhere, accidents everywhere, 8 hour traffic jams. And this happens with 4x4's even just being driven by idiots. These idiots get on forums like this and say "a Prius could never handle the snow, my friend crashed his SUV last timed it snowed.". You being from Colorado laugh at this and move on. But those not familiar, don't know who to believe. I've been grounded at an airport in Kentucky because of frost... FROST! the tips of the grass were white, little bit of ice. Everything cancelled.

Or similarly some friends of my wife who ski all the time... on the East coast came out to Colorado to ski. These people are rather elite athletes compared to most of the population. But make them ski down a single hill that is 3 miles long and at 12000ft elevation, and they can't take it. All we heard for years and even on the way to the resort was how skiing is the same everywhere, there will be no difference, they're expert black diamond skiers. Well a Colorado black doesn't even physically exist on the East Coast. Topped out at blues and lots of breaks inbetween. What do you know, it is different after all.

Our Gen-2 does Colorado mountains just fine. In the clear weather it has no trouble keeping up and passing the out of state traffic. In the winter it has no trouble going over the passes or up the few thousand feet vertical elevation up to our house. The car, with a skilled driver, will do just fine. Just like a car with good regular maintenance will do fine.

 

Ya, you got me there! And I even said that a million miles would be nice. But I also said that I'd like to do 30,000 miles per year for around 10 years if possible. I see a +299,999 mile club thread on the Gen 2 forum that's encouraging.

The point is I'm trying to replace an old car with a newer car, but without sacrificing the qualities I like in my old car. If my new car does less than my old car I would feel like I went backwards. If my old car gets about 48mpg on average (55mpg diesel to gasoline equivalent) it would be nice to get 49mpg in my new car. If my old car breaks down about once a year, it would be great if the new car doesn't break down but once every two years. If I've owned my old car for 7 years, it would make me so happy to reach 8 in my new car.

Now imagine if I did the opposite. I buy a newer car that instead of getting 48mpg, gets 33mpg. Instead of breaking down once every year, breaks down once every 6 months. Instead of lasting 7 years, only lasts me 3 by the time it's not worth keeping anymore. That's what I want to avoid.

So far the Prius seems to be the car that fits what I want. I just need help choosing one.

If I'm shooting too cheap please let me know. I've contemplated buying a new Prime, and I'm sure I could do it if I was sure it was the best bang for buck. I have $12,000 from two cars I sold that I'm keeping just for my next car. Although I would prefer to just pay cash, I would rather use that as a down payment and get a car that lasts than to pay cash and have a clunker nightmare.

Actually, if I remember correctly it seems someone on the MyNissanLeaf forum suggested that I buy a used Gen 2 Prius with a bad battery and buy a new battery from you @2k1Toaster.

Thanks you for the clarification! Finally someone with experience in the area where I live! With the negative comments I was getting I was starting to believe that a Prius could somehow spontaneously combust at the sight of a mountain or start to melt if it comes into contact with a snowflake. But my intuition tells me that a Prius is a car. And cars drive on mountains and in snow. I will take your advice and keep poking for answers from those who know while ignoring comments from those who don't understand where I'm coming from.

I am really excited that I will be buying a Prius sometime soon. What I really hope for is to avoid a lemon. Right now I'm contemplating a Gen 2 since those seem to have good longevity, but I am still open to options. I just don't like asking if I should get a Gen 2, a Gen 3 or a Gen 4 and being told that I should get a Dodge Charger instead.

Here's the thread I started about it:

Going to buy a Gen 2. What should I know? | PriusChat

And thanks again 2k1Toaster and Bisco! You're the best!

 

i hope you find what you're looking for!

 

Let me suggest looking at completed sales in Ebay for different cars you are interested. This will give the fair market value of recent sales. As for the various Prius models:

• 2001-03 Prius - a sedan with 65 mph limited highway. Can achieve 52 MPG both City and Hwy BUT they are getting pretty old. Driven poorly, it'll be disappointing. Only 2003 model year if you must.
• 2004-09 Prius - much improved hatchback but avoid 2004-06 as there were some weak solder joints.
• 2010-15 Prius - first with the 1.8L engine, look for most recent model years to get the factory installed upgrades. There is a cooled exhaust pipe drawing ahead of the catalytic converter that can get carbon choked. Still, it does everything the 04-09 does at +5 mph.
• 2016-current Prius - fixed the cooled exhaust by drawing after the catalytic converter. Only the 2016 Level 2 ECO lacks TSS-P (adaptive cruise control and emergency braking.)
• 2017-current Prime - first model year of plug-in hybrid, we're learning lessons. So far, no show stoppers but it is a work in progress.

I would also suggest the 2014-current BMW i3-REx. Coded to optimize tank volume and REx operation, the liquid cooled battery and 168 hp rear wheel drive makes this a nice pocket rocket. The short wheel base can lead to a slight rocking motion on jointed highways. But the small tank means refueling every hour and a quarter and fully sustains the battery charge up to 70 mph for 24x7 trips.

The BMW and Prime have enough EV range to cost half as much as gas miles around town. Happily, both have a range extender engine to handle highway travel. The Prime has very long legs at higher speeds than the BMW.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

Not as much as diesel advocates who can’t buy a new diesel like that one today.

The diesel vs Prius war is over and the Model 3 won.

Bob Wilson

 

I wonder: Since the Prius C and the Yaris hybrid have the same powertrain, (most likely) use the same platform, are near identical in dimensions and appeal to the same cohort of drivers - why two separate cars?

 

We don't have hybrid Yaris in the USA:
Compare Side-by-Side

• 46 MPG - Prius C hybrid
  • $24,965 highest
• 32, 34, 35 MPG - different Yaris models
  • $19,060
  • $17,050, $17,050

My understanding is closing the Scion line left a small car that became one of the two Yaris.

Bob Wilson

 

Import taxes to Europe. The Aqua/Prius c is slightly different in dimensions than the Yaris. They are likely on the same platform, but there is enough difference that it was cheaper to just put the Aqua drive train into the Yaris instead of building the Aqua there to avoid the tariffs.

Odds are that the Aqua will simply be replaced by a Yaris hybrid when it is time for a redesign.

 

Hey, can't have everything … but look what I found in Ashburn VA - a crypto Camry plug-in!

 

Or, in the US odds are the C will quietly follow the V on its path to afterlife … the new car inventory at our local Toyota dealership has 40x Tacomas, 28x Highlanders, 28x RAV4's, and 1x Prius C.

 

If I were you, I'd do a little of both.

1. Get the Prius & cure that itch for something a bit different.
2. Keep the diesel as vaccination against buyers remorse which often sets in. (I'd honestly keep the diesel for as long as is viable.)

Could always pass on both options though by keeping the diesel, putting a paint job on her, maybe some new seat covers / tire rims and going for the million mile mark. You'd probably spend 1/4 the cash way vs buying a new car.

 

Make that a Prius Prime and you'll be a lot happier. The money saved can pay for the diesel up keep.

Bob Wilson

 

Yeah, I suspect the Prius c is not long for North America. I think a Mazda2 hatch to replace the current Yaris one here is more likely than us getting a relabeled Yaris hybrid.

 

Ya. Not sure that the Model 3 has won yet (although I had an electric car once and would love to go that route again.) But for me I finally bought a Toyota hybrid mainly because there just isn't a lot going on in the diesel car market. I could have bought a Chevy Cruze diesel that, according to Consumer Reports, gets slightly better highway fuel mileage than any hybrid out there, even a Prius Prime. But Chevy doesn't have the longevity and reliability reputation that Toyota has. Better fuel mileage isn't better if you have to take your car into the shop twice as often and then replace it much sooner. So for me, Toyota hybrid it is.

But that doesn't mean the war between gasoline and diesel is over. Commercial vehicles are still mostly diesel. And the technology between the two is very close. It's kind of like saying that crossovers have won over station wagons. There could be some major breakthrough that lowers the cost of emissions controls on diesel engines while still effectively reducing emissions. Next thing you know diesel powered cars become competitive again. The war is at rest now, and if you want good fuel mileage in a car right now you buy a hybrid. Or a four wheeled enclosed motorcycle like the Mitsubishi Mirage.

Now all electric is something very different from internal combustion. I hope the Model 3 wins. But so far I tried the all electric route and it didn't work out. Hopefully some day it will. It would be great to turn away from both gasoline and diesel, instead of trying to nit pick between which is less damaging to the environment.

 

I ended up getting an Avalon Hybrid. It doesn't get the fuel mileage the VW did. And I can't say I'm saving in price-per-gallon because the Avalon owner's manual specifically calls for midgrade, which is about the same price as diesel. But on the other hand it is a much bigger car. The main thing I hope is that it lasts a long time. Maybe not 700,000 miles, but the longer it lasts the more economic it will be.

 

Does recommend or require midgrade? Many cars recommend a higher octane, but owners have no problems using regular.

 

Well, there's that part in there that if you use a lower octane you can end up damaging the engine. I suppose some people would take it as a recommendation, and others as a requirement. In many instances using a slightly lower octane won't hurt anything. But personally I don't take any chances. I do a lot of mountain driving. It's one thing to give the car a quick take off in city traffic and another to keep it there for several minutes going up a mountain pass.

 

If the car's modern enough to have computerized injection it'd likely just reduce spark advance a bit with regular gas, if it detected knock. Still, not optimum: I too would stick with the grade recommended in Owner's Manual.

 

The owner's manual will specify if the octane rating is a recommendation or requirement. If the manual says it's a requirement, then there is the risk of damage. If it says it is a recommendation, then there isn't a risk.

All engines today have knock sensors. They are used to keep the ignition timing at the point for best performance and efficiency. The engines are running at the edge of knocking all the time. Fill up with a lower octane than recommended, and the timing drops to prevent knocking. That does mean power and efficiency will drop, but you likely won't notice the first in a hybrid with the electric motor's contribution. then the loss in efficiency will be covered by the lower cost in fuel.

My parents had a 2004 Acura TL, and it recommended premium. They only used regular for over 100k miles without issues. Very few cars require higher than regular octane these days.

Now, where are you seeing that midgrade is recommended? Fueleconomy.gov is saying the Avalon hybrid takes regular, and the manuals for the 2016, 2018, and 2019 say to use regular AKI 87(RON 91).