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Influenza 2018-2019 vaccination

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by tochatihu, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    US CDC suggests October to place yourself at sharp end of that little spear. Those younger than 6 months are excused. For those allergic to chicken-egg products, an alternative is available (Flublok).

    Last year's vaccine was less effective than typical, which ought not be seen as a deterrent. We have a new roll of the dice. Last year's US influenza mortality was higher than typical, which ought to be seen as motivation.

    ==
    Related:
    Influenza vaccines are profitable for manufacturers. Some slice of profits goes to research which arguably advances public health. It's a funny world where one virus group funds attacks against other virus groups.

    I find no information about thimerosal in current vaccines, and appeal to readers to add that. Not that I agree that it is even a detectable harm, but knowing things is good.

    Vitamin D was earlier suggested for influenza resistance. One could imagine a epidemiological study with vaccine and 'D', singly or combined, with 'neither' controls. Such seems not to have been done.
     
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    On the consent sheet I signed last week, the allergy and other warnings did not include any mention of this ingredient. But I didn't ask which manufacturer's product was being provided.

    This ingredient was included on the disclosures in many past years, but I can't say just when it disappeared.
     
    #2 fuzzy1, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  3. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I was driving to the airport on Sept 6 when I saw that this year's vaccine was available. Oct 3, the day I got back, I got the vaccine.

    All the girls had gotten it mid September via their employer.

    My wife's shot hurt, but mine was pain free unless you actually push on the site.
     
  4. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    Personally, I pretty much always "caught" the "flu" in January, February and March when I "caught it."

    Make February the prime time for ME>

    So, getting a vaccine in September or October seems a bit hasty, since research shows that it drops in effectiveness with each passing week.

    I usually get the vaccine in December. Been doing that for a couple of decades. No infection yet.

    Article below is interesting....they go with the flow though and bow to October.

    Can the influenza vaccine wear off too soon? | American Pharmacists Association
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Putting 1 ml of any liquid into muscle is an insult. Feeling no 'tenderness' would suggest recipient is not hearing what local nerves are reporting :)

    Immune system responding to 'not-self' molecules is a step higher. They hate it - it's their job! - and their local response is first step to improving recipient's resistance to whatever influenza virus arrives later. In this case, pain might be seen as gain.

    ==
    Only my thoughts. Thimerosal (which includes mercury as preservative) is only needed in vaccine, if along the pre-injection chain, it might escape low-temperature control to limit bacterial growth. Because vaccines contain molecules that bacteria joyfully eat. Such eating would reduce efficacy. If we could know for sure that vaccines always have good temperature control, we'd never need to add thimerosal.

    A separate question is whether ~1 milligram of mercury ions injected to muscle might possibly cause neurological problems. Because that really is the assertion. I say no, and would volunteer to participate in a thimerosal injeciton study.
     
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  6. Starship16

    Starship16 Senior Member

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    I recently got all the important ones, all at once. Just like in the Army. ;)

    Quadrivalent flu vaccine. I told the Pharmacist to give me the strongest one for Seniors. The "four banger."

    Tdap.
    Combination vaccine that protects against three potentially life-threatening bacterial diseases: tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis (whooping cough).

    Pneumococcal vaccination. Pneumonia.

    Shingles. CDC recommends that people 60 years old and older get shingles vaccine (Zostavax®) to prevent shingles and PHN. Shingrix (recombinant zoster vaccine) is the preferred vaccine.

    All shots at the Costco pharmacy. No membership needed. Both arms. Its been nice knowin' ya. :eek:
    (Seriously, there was no pain, nor any side affects. Now the only thing I need in the future is a simple annual flu shot.)




     
    #6 Starship16, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Related to @Stevewoods, we could consider whether one has influenza or one of hundreds of rhinovirus or coronavirus (those also known as the common cold).

    Influenza infections 'present' suddenly and with high fever and aches. 'Colds' are less in both ways.
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Which one? There is more than one, you should get both, but not together.

    I don't yet meet my HMO's guidelines, but appealed for it anyway during a compound series of respiratory insults this summer (multiple colds, pneumonia-like precursors, wildfire smoke, possible asthma), and got it. I had a true case of pneumonia a few years ago, and do not want a repeat, enough so to even be willing to pay for vaccination as an uncovered item. PCV13 this time, still need PPSV23 next year.

    At just 1 ml, folks should be glad to be a human being, not human's livestock. Nothing I inject into them, even calves, is just 1 ml. Nor do they get similarly small needles. (The usual needles for us would simply buckle against their hide.)
     
  9. Starship16

    Starship16 Senior Member

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    Thanks fuzzy. I will check with the Doc again and confirm which pneumonia shot I got.

    I also read an article that says the Shingles vaccine only protects for 5 years? I thought it was much longer than that.

    And this: "Adults need to get a Td booster shot every 10 years to stay protected. This vaccine protects against tetanus and diphtheria. CDC also recommends one dose of Tdap for adults who have never received it. The easiest thing for adults to do is to get Tdap instead of their next regular Td booster. However, the dose of Tdap can be given earlier than the 10-year mark. Talk to a doctor to learn about what’s best for your specific situation."

    "The committee recommended that seniors get both the Prevnar 13 and the Pneumovax 23 vaccines. As their names imply, Prevnar 13 protects against 13 types of pneumococcal bacteria, and the Pneumovax 23 protects against 23 types of pneumococcal bacteria."

    Seniors Need 2 Pneumonia Vaccines, CDC Advisory Panel Says – WebMD
     
    #9 Starship16, Oct 9, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I've been getting flu shot for several years now, but I am not sure if it is working or not. Whether I get the flu shot or not, I end up getting flu-like symptom at least once or twice a season. Never sever enough to needing much treatment. Just resting up is enough. Maybe those are just plain cold. Yeah, I want plain cold vaccine.:(
     
  12. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Six years ago,My daughter was entering nursing school and had to get TDAP. It occurred to me that I had last had a tetanus shot in 1977. So I asked my Dr who was poo pooing the need given my lifestyle, until he heard 1977, so I got my booster 6 years ago.
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Thimerosal hasn't been used in vaccines, at least children's, in the US for over a decade now.

    Any harms prescribed to it are more likely the result of all the plastics, their precursors, and degradation components in the environment.
    No such thing as just the flu.
    80,000 died from it last year in the US.
    As a child, I got it yearly for a span of years, and it was always a week in bed at the minimum.
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    One ml is just an example. Some intramuscular injections for humans are much larger.

    It may no longer be common practice, but tropical travel was preceded by about 10 mL of gamma globulin. One's buttocks can accommodate such volume, but not comfortably. Then you sit (at an angle) on airline seat for some hours.
     
  15. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    I haven't had flu vaccine for 3 or 4 years.

    I took my Mum&Dad to the doctor (aged 84 ish) for theirs, I had a booking for a couple of weeks time.

    90 minutes after the injection, Mum collapsed, fortunately at home by then, unconscious. I couldn't feel a pulse or see breathing, rang 000 immediately and the ambulance was there quickly, but over the telephone they talked me through some immediate treatment (roll on her side etc), and by the time the ambulance arrived she was taking occasional shallow breaths, but I still couldn't feel a pulse.

    To hospital, for a whole week. As she was being discharged, they said that they had a few other patients who had collapsed after their flu shots in the hospital too.

    I rang my doctor and cancelled my flu shot.
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    That is a a terrible story. It would help us a lot if you have learned why she had this response.
     
  17. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    No - they never gave us an answer. My best friend's mother had the same thing 2 weeks later - she tried to find out, and they didn't know either. We just avoided them after that.

    Sometimes trying to find out info like that is harder than finding out why TOYOTA didn't put LED bulbs INSIDE Gen 4 PRIUS - no, we don't know that either.
     
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  18. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I may be wrong to say so, but influenza vaccinations seem not directed towards 'herd immunity' - limiting further infections. Because they are taken by few. Rather they aim at individual protection.

    Influenza, when it kills, mostly does so by overstimulating one's own immune system. See "cytokine storm". Somehow in this case and others alluded to, there may have been (my guess) a similar (self) immune-system over response. Such speculation cannot be relied upon.
     
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  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Faced with something like this I'd never suggest elders to take the vaccine. But this intransigence ought not to go unchallenged. You and she! and others had bad outcomes. It seems incumbent on medical community to explain themselves.
     
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  20. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    By any chance, was it anaphylactic shock?

    "Causes
    Anaphylaxis can occur in response to almost any foreign substance. Common triggers include venom from insect bites or stings, foods, and medication. Foods are the most common trigger in children and young adults while medications [emphasis added] and insect bites and stings are more common in older adults."

    "Management
    Anaphylaxis is a medical emergency that may require resuscitation measures such as airway management, supplemental oxygen, large volumes of intravenous fluids, and close monitoring. Administration of epinephrine is the treatment of choice with antihistamines and steroids (for example, dexamethasone) often used as adjuncts."


    My primitive farm veterinary understanding is that this can happen after any injection, though is very infrequent. I have witnessed it exactly once among dad's cattle, when a cow collapsed shortly after her semi-annual vaccinations. Fortunately he was pre-supplied with epinephrine, which was administered and she recovered shortly thereafter.

    He became sloppy in his organization in later years, and I hadn't seen an epinephrine vial until recently combing through all the vet supplies he'd used and set aside / buried in junk piles over the past decade. There was his 'new' vial of it. Checking it just now, I see an expiration date of September 1977. :eek:

    If someone similarly collapsed in a place far from medical aid (this place sort of qualifies as such), I'd still use it.

    And I wouldn't use this incident as sufficient reason to cancel a flu shot. Rather, stay close to available medical assistance for a while afterwards. But it is certainly worth keeping track of any news that this particular vaccine might have an abnormally high rate of adverse reactions.
     
    #20 fuzzy1, Oct 10, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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