Featured Jalopnik reviews 2018 Bolt

I realize that it's a bit early to compare electrics to gas cars directly. On the other hand, they'll never be accepted as normal unless we start viewing them on equal terms- gotta start sometime.

 

And they are heading there. The gen2 Volt starting price is over $6000 less than the gen1's when it first came out. The new Leaf almost doubled the very first's range while reducing the price.

Then car cost isn't just the selling price. Just got my car inspected today. There are two in Pennsylvania, safety and emissions. Not needing emissions for a BEV will save me $40 to $50 every year on top of the reduced fuel and maintenance costs.

 

it's never too early here, but it's way too early in the real world. they're still struggling to compare hybrids to straight gassers. and after 20 years, hybrids are still more expensive.

 

A hybrid, and diesel, will always cost more in comparison to an equivalent traditional gasoline fueled car to purchase. At best, you can get the difference low enough to make the purchase worth while enough with the local fuel prices. That's why hybrids are a tough sell in the US, while sales are taking off in Europe.

 

Hybrids make excellent used cars, though! I know, I know!

Thank you, folks who buy hybrids new from the bottom of my heart.

 

Well I am cross shopping the Model 3 and the 2019 Rev4h. Willing to wait till the Rav is out 1Q19 and early adopter reports are out versus the loss in tax credits I'd lose by waiting. I have to wait at least another 9 months to have a feel for the RAV4's desirability, build quality and reliability.

 

while smugly driving around one day - with over 100k miles on the prius, i thought, "lucky me! Only ⅔ of the way thru my car's killer battery warranty". But a few months ago, I discovered how lucky I truly was, simply because, there were no battery problems up to, & past 100k miles. Then I heard of people with reduced mileage, even beliw 100k miles - because the traction packs capacity had dropped. The dealership told them in short, "too bad". The warranty, I discovered simply meant that it wouldn't be completely dead by the end of the 150k miles. Since then, and due in part to the outrage of some customers, some manufacturers have started giving a warranty with capacity loss. Without it, you might as well not even consider the notion you have a capacity warranty. True, early Nussal Leafs & Honda hybrids were the absolute worst, & they got a paltry settlement. But it's a shame it has to come to that.
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Your car is 16 years old. No matter how many or few miles are on it, it has come to the end of its life. And please enlighten us as to the specifics of the capacity problem. How much capacity drop are you talking about? At what point in the car's life (years and miles). What makes you think that only miles count?

 

what mfg's?

odd that you got a prius and leaf with bad batteries.

 

William, you have jumbled your facts from my post. I never said that my traction pack, w/in the 100,000 mile threshold was a problem. My comment was that others have had problems. I did not know that the 100k or 150k mile warranty was so illusory .... such that a Hyundai, or Ford, or pip, or prime was susceptible to still being within a warranty spec, even though you might lose ½ of your traction pack's capacity in only, say for example, 2 years or 50K MI. Your dealership will send you on your way.
It does not matter that this scenario hasn't happened to you, nor I, what matters is that most hybrid or plug-in owners don't know that this is the case.
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fortunately, that's not an issue for any prius

 

Wait a minute, haven't you posted that you have had a shortening of your pip's range while under warranty?
& that's not meant to intimate that capacity loss under warranry happens to everyone, much less most - just that it happens .... and under many manufacturers warranty, during the warranty period, there is no relief under the warranty.
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yes, but it is expected, isn't it? otoh, prius mpg's don't seem as affected.

 

I haven't jumbled anything. I am just asking you what your expectations are from a battery that is 16 years old. Don't you expect some degradation over those years? Just asking. I, personally, don't think there is an expectation that the battery capacity will be 100% for the life of the car (150,000 miles, apparently). And there is an iphone app that measures capacity. I think it is called Dr. Prius.

 

forgive me for my guess, but the 16-year number is because that takes all traction packs out of warranty? Nevertheless sure, let's run with that either way. No, of course not - batteries can't stay 100% resistance-free for over 150,000 miles. Again, that's not the paramount issue. The bothersome issue is that many manufacturers are reluctant to be nailed down to what is reasonable capacity loss.
So, if you use lose a little or lose a lot, all the dealership has to do is say, "oh - silly customer, I'm sorry you didn't realize it but that's reasonable - have a great day"

Since Tesla, for example, has the most logged (billions) miles, their data gives a great source for how resilient a battery can be (should be? ought to be?) when charged/discharged over 100's of 1,000's of miles. Their data shows that even at 200K miles - capacity degradation can still be maintained at less than 10%. Thermal management, its shown to be as important to capacity loss/preservation as anything else.
This is a Jalopnik review of the bolt. GM so far really appears to have their thermal management nailed down. I don't know if (GM) their warranty States what kind of capacity loss creates an actionable warranty claim. IF it is as silent as some of the other manufacturers, caveat emptor.
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I use the 16 year number because your profile states your car is a 2004.

I am not trying to be argumentative. But what would you consider reasonable? And, btw, I don't think most Prius traction batteries fail by degradation. It seems to me, from my reading, that failures turn on the Hybrid System Failure warning. At that point, if you are within the 10-year, 150,000 warranty (in CARB states), you get a new battery, no charge.

 

it wouldn't be wise to presume it hadn't been rebuilt at 185k miles .... then sold to another coworker family member

Even so, my expectations had really not become defined, because I didn't understand capacity loss principles at the time.

never even considered your thoughts argumentative. And I hope you don't think my thoughts are evasive - but again, knowing more than I did decades ago, expectations of capacity loss turn on thermal management or the lack thereof. Run a 2012 Nissan Leaf in the Arizona summers & frequently used DC QC? You can 'expect' to kill ½ your capacity in under 40 months/45k miles. Should people consider it despicable if Nissan knew that data from their own tests, & yet called such loss expected - when owners began to complain?

Agreed! But a warranty isn't about what happens most of the time. A warranty is based on the manufacturer's studies. A warranty tells the buyer they're assured nothing should go wrong within the given parameters, and if it does, you're covered because the manufacturer backs their product. So even if you fall in the minority & need to make a claim, you don't worry about it.
If a manufacturer fears putting their product's capability under warranty? The manufacturer just played their hand. They're telling you, "take your chances" - and hope to God you fall in the 95 percentile.

hybrid system failure could simply mean your inverter coolant pump crapped out. You'd get a new pump, not a new traction pack. The hybrid system failure could be mg1, mg2, a synergy drive gear bearing, one of several ECU's - a fan etc. That's the thing they would fix under warranty.
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In the case of the CARB and federal warranties used to cover hybrid batteries, these are warranty coverage dictated by a regulatory body. The hybrid battery was deemed a critical part of the emissions system, so it is covered by the federal 8yr/100k mile warranty all cars have. The warranty doesn't care about capacity. It only cares that the car still meets emissions for its certification and age.