Use of 0w20 Motor Oil In Very Warm Climates

Very interesting articles, jimbo. Sounds like we may be headed for a AMSOIL vs RED LINE debate?

I just put in the cheap stuff... the poor man's Mobil 1 5W-30 Extended Performance. My ICE is now purring quietly like a young female lion. (Mobil must use a very good "placebo effect" additive in their oil.)

 

thanks! if you don't mind me asking, what filter do you use for the those extended drains in prius?

 

The additive pac in some the Euro oil was different depending on the intended use -- they have fairly long interval lengths to minimize used oil. We have very consistent gasoline in the USA and a very good road system --- our highway speeds are not stressful.

Not to offend ... but this oil talk for a Prius is a bit funny. With all the starts -- having the 0W is important IMO.

 

why? most are not cold starts.

 

"Our highway speeds are not stressful...." I'll buy that. I don't mind doing 87. But I still get run over, and I'm in the slow lane.

 

Fully agree on the first part and I’ve ssid several times that the engine will likely outlast the car.

But.... it seems like a lot of people have issues with severe oil burning at moderate mileage. They say it’s the rings. I haven’t investigated and I would love to tear an oil burner apart so I would know for sure what it is. If it’s wear, additional ZDDP will help but this excludes it from the SN rating and higher HTHS significantly lowers ring to cylinder wear. Once it’s an oil burner, the extra ZDDP oil option is gone or you will be replacing catalytic converters every couple years. It actually isn’t the instant death sentence that some make it out to be when regurgitating info they read but have no experience with but it’s bad enough that ZDDP isn’t an option anymore and that’s another reason to choose carefully from the beginning of life.

The 0w being better for starts, especially warm/hot starts is unfortunately an assumption, a myth that was thrown out there a long time ago and the “enlightened” ones of the day when thick oil was in ran with it. This in no way aimed at you and most of us here have had it near into our heads as fact when it’s not.

It can be better sometimes, in the extreme cold on the first start of the day. For the vast majority of the US, a 5w30 is going to offer at least as good startup protection on the first start as a 0w20 snd it’s higher HTHS is going to result in less wear when running.

So speaking generally and not aimed st anyone, especially not the person I wuoted above, at this point I’m at a loss as to why people think 0w20 offers better startup protection in a regular climate of the US and why it offers better protection in any climate, extreme or not, during the many hot starts it goes through during a drive. So I’ll ask, how does a 0w20 provide less wear or better protection in a non extreme climate upon cold start and repeated hot starts?

I’ll knock down one myth now, from technical papers I’ve bought to my experience on the street and the extremes of the track to a test SBC with functional oiling system on the stand that there is no difference in time to full pressure and flow from startup between these weights. The oil pump is a positive displacement pump. It pumps the same volume of oil per engine revolution no matter the weight. The pressure will go up somewhat with the thicker oils due to this fact. It’s rarely much over 1 second after sitting overnight to hit full pressure and see flow from the valvetrain which is farthest from the pump with anything from a 20 to a 0w40 on a 38F morning. With this said, while the near instant pressure and flow are nice, lubrication starts the instant the engine begins to turn which I’ve mentioned in other threads and don’t feel like going over it again.

And while we are on it, why is it so bad to use a slightly thicker but completely reasonable viscosity for a given climate but 0w20 is the best for all conditions from Phoenix’s 118F summers to -20F up North. Why is this blindly followed by faith and myths alone while knowing a government agency with the goal of increasing NEW CAR mpg at all costs plays a huge role in the use and recommendstion of this oil while countries outside of the US recommend viscosity based on ambient temps which is how it used to be over here once upon a time and makes so much more sense if it’s wear reduction you’re wanting. And I’m so glad we have 0w20 for the people that need it. I currently have a few quarts as part of a cocktail in my Prius so I don’t hate this oil. I lived in Tahoe for a while and every car of mine had 0w20 in it. When I was in flagstaff I used a 0w10 and 0w20 mix because it fit my needs and it was no thinner (due to the very cold ambient temps and the average drive of 2 miles each way where it barely hit 90F even with a “hot” 170F coolant temp) than a 5w30 in my current climate both on a cold start and when hot. I listen to everyone and take it all in because I want to gain knowledge from all sides, not just people that agree with me but ultimately I put my money where my mouth is and I experiment and I pay money for other people’s professional research and I apply it on the street and on the track. While I like oil discussions, I don’t do this to win internet battles where in the past, real life experience both professional and amateur with some really good data that I paid a good bit of money for over time and a network of contacts in the industry, one being on the development team for Ford’s modular engines, held less weight than some guy on the internet that clearly had no idea how an engine worked but had big opinions on oil. I’ve found that very few want to learn, most just want to be right 100% of the time to “win”(?) an argument and that usually includes stating your opinion as fact. I would thank anyone that proves me wrong because I like knowledge which will benefit me and I don’t want to give out bad advice. I go off on these tangents but I try to explain how I came to a conclusion so people can see if my reasoning is flawed. That’s the main reason I end up with so much crap in my posts. I am going to be more picky and not entertain opinions disguised as facts and half truths anymore or at least not as much because most have been gone over already and could be avoided by research and even buying research. I’m burned out of providing facts and opinions based on sound logic and experience when it took me so many years, engine failures, and tons of money just to acquire enough knowledge to get to what I consider slightly above average oil knowledge. It just doesn’t interest me anymore to debate anyone that regurgitates what they hear in the internet, barely understands what they are saying, yet will cling to their argument as if their life depends on it. Like I said, it’s easy to make me say I’m wrong, just provide facts. I have no need to feed my ego st this point. And again, this is aimed at no one on this board, just way too many years of reading and participating in debates and finally realizing 2 years ago after about 16 years on the internet of trying to learn and to share what I had learned as I learned it and eventually the cumulative experience, that the vast majority want to win what I thought was a discussion to compare ideas then opinions and myths became facts and the big picture was lost.

IAlso for full disclosure, since some asked about it and I totally forgot about it, my Prius has 5.5 quarts in the sump to help with my long OCI. I’m not suggesting anyone else to do this. Though maybe as a side effect it will ease the minds of those that are a few mm past the full mark on the dipstick. Mine is almost twice as high as it should be but it’s just not a big deal as the pan level is no more than an inch higher than normal.

 

BuickGN, you certainly outdid yourself with that post. I'm not easily "sold" on stuff, especially when it comes to reading anonymous information on the Internet. But I'm going to dive headfirst into the pool on this one... I like what you're saying, and appreciate all your study and research. I've already driven 300 miles (in hot heat) with the Mobil 1 5W-30, and I like how the ICE sounds and there is no decernible loss in gas mileage... not that I'm concerned about that. MPG is the least of my worries while driving a Prius. But I am very interested in reducing engine wear, and possibly preventing sludge build-up. And a longer OCI sounds good, too.

I'm going to continue with the Mobil 1 for the next several months, and then switch over to the "champagne" of oils...
Look what the FedEx man just delivered:



I hate politicians, and their phoney-baloney CAFE standards.

 

5 quart jug of Mobil 1 is $22 at Walmart. mobil one coupons to give you $12 off. Effectively 5 quarts of oil is 10 bucks
$17 Off Motor Oil Promotion March-May 2018 | Mobil™


Prices like this I don't really care if it's not the very best oil

 

One question, will you be selling your prius at some point?

 

0W -- The way it was explained to me by my auto engineer friends -- had to do with oil pressure. The whole engine's oil ports are designed around the intended oil weight. A 0W-20 is going to flow differently vs a 10W .. throughout its range.
modern oils are much better vs older varieties in the way they protect a stopped engine .. but the engine needs oil quickly. Think of how many times the Prius engine is allowed to sit stoped .. long enough for the oil to settle .. then start.

It's obviously working ..because we don't have head issues (valves/cams).

Using higher weigh oils can effect the pressures at start up .. also remember that not every engine is the same. It's easy to build in the ability to change the oil ports -- flow requirements of an engine in different markets and also change the bypass to meet local demands. Oil also cools -- so proper flow is important

 

i understand you very well, this is exactly why i lost interest in online forums. the stupid is usually the loudest.

let me guess, they were American auto engineers? I have a close friend who is a mechanical engineer, foreign trained, and he can't believe how clueless are new American trained engineer hires. The society is profoundly dumbed down (it's everywhere, in the leadership, too).

For the record, there is little difference (viscosity wise) between 0W20 and old fashioned dino "energy saving" 5W30 that promptly sheared down to 5W20. Requiring 0W20 buys you quality synthetic that can withstand extended drains of 10,000 mile or longer.

 

Yup. They got rid of the highway patrol in California, also. As far as I can tell. Probably.

 

On the fence here whether or not I come here on a daily basis. Just new PC users not using the search feature, or consult the owners manual and we see the same post over and over and over and over. The only way for me to continue being here is dark red wine, if not for that I would have to get a life.

 

Hopefully the wine is the box style to keep costs low like @bisco does.

Or you’ll need to move your retirement date back.

 

red wine is responsible for all my intelligent posts. the rest are the result of the few brain cells left.

 

Is that an old school charger for your avatar BTW?

 

A timer??

 

it's the open evse kit a priuschat member built for me back in the day. 6 years and going strong.
good for 32 amps if i ver go bev.

 

If or when .

 

Enough said.....