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EGR circuit... Cleaned it, still CEL. Now what?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by JKMill, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. JKMill

    JKMill Junior Member

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    Hello all,

    About a week ago a CEL showed up. Had a parts store pull the code: P0401, insufficient EGR flow. Thanks to advice on this forum and on YouTube, I figured out how to remove the pipe, valve, and cooler. Really a pain, but I got it out, got it all very clean, and got it reinstalled. Tip I learned: brake cleaner does not work well enough, but carb cleaner does. Changed spark plugs while I had everything apart. Car is running like a top, as it did before all of this.

    Problem is, I've driven about 150 miles and the CEL has not gone out. What should I do? I haven't disconnected the battery, reckoning that if the CEL goes out by itself, it's actually fixed. If I force it to clear, I don't really know.

    Car is a 2010 with 109,500 miles.

    What do you think?

    Thanks in advance!
     
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  2. BZzap!

    BZzap! Senior Member

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    You might want call Toyota and check into the warranty enhancement program for assistance. I believe you are within the coverage they have. This is especially true if you live in a CARB state. I might be wrong but the coverage is 150,000 miles/ 10 years
     
  3. JKMill

    JKMill Junior Member

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    Very true. Everyone should check that before undertaking this task. I do have the warranty enhancement, but unfortunately it expired March, 2017.

    I'm hoping folks have experiences with what to do / what happened in their case after they cleaned the EGR circuit.

    Thanks!
     
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  4. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    I’ve done our egr circuit cleaning twice on our 2010 Prius II now with 184 k miles on it and going strong :).

    I’ve seen better engine response and improved mpg each time I’ve done this job;).

    You need to do all components though: egr valve, cooler, pipe and intake manifold. If you miss one, the job is not done:(.

    I have not had misfires or the cold startup knock in a very long time (I also have installed an oil catch can);).

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
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  5. JKMill

    JKMill Junior Member

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    Thanks Ray,
    I got the valve, cooler and pipe very clean but definitely did not do the intake manifold. You think that the manifold could be dirty enough to cause low flow later in the circuit, without experiencing any performance problems? It seems odd. If I need to do that too... guess I will!
    How did the CEL work for you? Did you disconnect the battery or did you wait and the CEL went off on it's own?
     
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  6. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    There are small passages from the egr circuit that go into the bottom side of the intake manifold. These openings get gummy and blocked off:(.

    Since the egr gases take the path of least resistance, if one or more are restricted (or blocked), now there is a temperature imbalance which then can lead to warmer material interacting with metal sealing surfaces while other areas have cooler air interacting with metal sealing surfaces.

    Having this thermal imbalance can lead to tee reports you see here of head gasket issues:(.

    I’d get the intake manifold cleaned and go from there;).

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
  7. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    The intake have a small hole for each cylinder that gets clogged. You need to clean them out also.
    You beat me to the punch! :)
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    I had a check engine light one time, and with 5~6 start ups it went away on it's one. That's one possibility. Another: did you make double sure everything's plugged back in: the throttle body connector (likely the car wouldn't run with out), the MAP sensor (just below and to the right of throttle body, as you stand facing the front of engine), the MAF sensor (on the snorkel between air filter and thottle body, one of the last things to reconnect when putting the air box on). I'm guilty of forgetting that one time. The car will run, not bad, on some sort of defaults I guess, but you have constant CEL.
     
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  9. JKMill

    JKMill Junior Member

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    Every connector was carefully cleaned and re-plugged. Car is running perfectly. Tomorrow I'm going to clean the intake, change the pcv valve while I'm in there, and hope it takes care of the CEL. Thanks-
     
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  10. JKMill

    JKMill Junior Member

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    Removed and cleaned the intake today. It was definitely oily and dirty, much like those on YouTube, but the visible parts of the egr passages were not blocked. Got it pretty clean and ensured the small passages were fully flowing. Oily material did not dissolve as readily as that on the egr valve/cooler/pipe so it took a while. Removal and re-installation was so much easier though. Replaced pcv valve while in there. Reassembled everything and car runs great. CEL still on, but only had chance to drive 17 mil so far.

    Question about CEL & codes: Now that I've cleaned everything, should I disconnect battery or just keep driving? What did you do after your egr circuit cleaning?

    Have to pass emissions in only a few days. This is getting old! Never had this issue with my wife's 2008, and I hope we don't with her 2017 Prius v. Only 8,000 miles on that one so far.

    Thanks.
     
  11. BZzap!

    BZzap! Senior Member

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    This may be a hard code and needs to be cleared with a TecHStream or other similar device. The code data may have been embedded in the source code of the ECM.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Various ways to read codes, ScanGuage for example, or some phone apps. Barring that, resign yourself to a dealership visit, get them to read codes, tell you what they are, go from there? Let them know what you've done, don't keep them in the dark.
     
  13. icyrius

    icyrius Active Member

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    What tool did you use for removing the bottom nut of the cooler? I managed to remove the top and not the bottom. I gave up after an hour of trying. Way too tight in there.
     
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  14. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Ratcheting wrench;).

    A great tool for this job:).

    Harbor freight has them cheap(y).
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Are you talking about the blue or red ones? The bottom nut (in blue case) yeah ratcheting wrench helps a lot. The red nut for me at least I found the toughest: really hard to get at. Took just the right ratchet extension length, and really blind. About the time I wrapped up I was watching @NutzAboutBolts video one more time, and see he reached 'round (clockwise around the back of the unit) with his left hand, was actually able to touch the connection that way.

    upload_2018-8-12_7-58-49.png
     
    #15 Mendel Leisk, Aug 12, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
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  16. JKMill

    JKMill Junior Member

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    If you mean the bottom one (i.e., red in Mendel's note), I used an extension, with a universal joint between the extension and socket. Picked a viable route between the maze of cables and hoses. Not easy. Once I got it on there, I kept going regardless of how many cuts and scratches I was sustaining. I only removed the nut from that one, not the stud. On the back, exhaust end (i.e., blue), I laid across the engine and mainly used my left hand, with a regular wrench an ratcheting wrench to remove the nuts, then removed the studs too. Not nearly as hard as the bottom one.
     
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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Priceless! :ROFLMAO:
     
  18. JKMill

    JKMill Junior Member

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    Updating...
    After doing the intake manifold, so that the whole circuit was clean... egr pipe, valve, cooler, plus replacing spark plugs and pcv, I ended up disconnecting the battery to clear the CEL. Came back on less than 20 miles later. I have only driven maybe 45 since disconnecting the battery. Just hooked up the OBD reader and still pulling P0401. Anything else but a bad egr valve that it could be at this point? I'm leaning towards buying the new valve. Hate to chase the problem with $ if I haven't diagnosed / eliminated things properly.
     
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  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Just reading now, in the repair manual. Beside the 3 egr components (pipe/valve/cooler), there's mention of the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor being a "trouble area". Did you clean that? It's just below the throttle body, on the right side. In my experience it was completely oil-soaked. If so, what cleaner?
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Here's the troubleshooting procedure for p0401 (& p0403) . Maybe some can be done without techstream?
     

    Attached Files:

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