Model 3 current and projected production

So we get ICE cars off the road, what about jet planes, that cause a lot more pollution then a car, ships, manufacturing factories, trains, electrical plants, there is so many additional things in the world that contribute to pollution. ICE in 2018 is so much cleaner then it ever has been.

 

No one is saying that we ignore the other things. But transportation is one of the biggest pieces to the puzzle. It is also one that each and everyone of us has direct control over how we individually use.

 

Right - so my ICE hybrid which is considered a clean air vehicle is not a threat.

 

By definition of the State of California

 

You give BEVs too much credit. Ignoring CO2, ICE are already clean enough that dust from tire and brake wear is more likely to cause cancer than the exhaust.

BEVs are going to kill just as many squirrels and kick up just as much dust on a gravel road, and require just as much road salt in the winter, etc.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

You are too dismisssive of BEVs
Many places are phasing out ICE vehicles, partly due to CO2, but also other tailpipe emissions.

The American Lung association finds there are a lot of health benefits to EVs http://www.lung.org/local-content/california/documents/2016zeroemissions.pdf.

Many other organizations do as well.

Personally, I would not have used the word ‘threat’ as it is too vague.
Your hybrid is toxic. It is less toxic than a gas guzzler, but more toxic than a car that emits no tailpipe toxins such as CO.

 

There's more health and environmental impacts from driving than just those that come out the tailpipe. Driving a BEV, even when the electricity is sourced from unicorn farts (which probably contain methane, but I digress), still have health and environmental impacts:

Air Pollution Exposed: Why You Might Be Breathing In Tire Waste | HuffPost

But more research is needed to better understand the health effects of tire wear particles, Kelly said, especially as non-tailpipe emissions ― from brake pads and road surfaces as well as tires ― become increasingly important while exhaust emissions are brought under control.
​

 

Absolutely, in no way did I mean to imply driving an EV has zero health and environmental impacts.
It just has a lot FEWER health and environmental impacts than driving an ICE vehicle.

 

Okay, I didn't really like my previous post, as it's going to sound like BEV bashing to some ears. My points are:

• Global warming / CO2 emissions is far and away the biggest reason to prefer BEV over *fossil fuels* (to distinguish from bio-fueled ICE, which may have a small role to play IMHO)
• Reducing the need to drive should be a big part of the near-term solution.

 

*YOU* don't get that we are generally on your side, yet you insist on lumping together any vehicle that has an ICE whether it's a range extender or a turbocharged racing engine. From such an extreme position you sell BEVs as a panacea which they are not.

I was ignoring CO2 only because it doesn't cause cancer. As stated elsewhere, I fully agree that BEVs are an important part of the answer to global warming, but I guess if I'm not 100% in agreement with you then I might as well just get a diesel pickup and roll some coal

 

there are way too many squirrels imo.

 

I know this is going to make me unpopular around here, but the idea that you can "reverse" climate change is preposterous since the climate is always changing and always has. CO2 isn't poisonous and has been as high as 1400 ppm in earth's history. Actual poisonous emissions reduction, energy independence, and having the ability to own a personal renewable power plant are all the reasons I'm in on this, not the CO2 doom (an atmospheric preponderance of which actually has benefits).

 

Bob Wilson

 

That won't make you unpopular, just a target for re-education A few counterpoints:

• The goal of limiting greenhouse gases is to limit climate change, as there is no realistic way to reverse it
• While CO2 levels have been higher in the very distant past, the current rate of change is unprecedented and CO2 levels are very well correlated with average temperature
• The sun is outputting a bit more energy than it did millions of years ago, the same amount of CO2 will produce a warmer climate than it did when the sun was cooler. In a few million more years CO2 won't matter because the sun will simply be too hot. A few billion years after that the sun will totally consume the earth.

Nobody knows exactly what's going to happen, exactly, but the overwhelming opinion is that it's not going to be good.

 

We have an opening in the ‘Envronment’ forum. The last skeptic has wandered off.

The only reason for any criticism is not posting about Tesla.

Bob Wilson