Update Part 2: Prolong Hybrid Charger /Discharger deluxe

Just motors is one of the best hybrid shops.
You are fortunate to have them as your mechanic.

 

For a pack showing normal behavior, we recommend reconditioning the pack twice a year and charging & balancing it twice a year. So if reconditioning is done at month zero, then follow on reconditioning should be done at month 6 and 12. A single charge and balance should be done at month 3 and 9. Weaker batteries may need more frequent servicing. Here is the info on our site:
How frequently should I use the Prolong Battery Charger/Discharger on my hybrid battery? -Hybrid Automotive

 

Hi Jeff,

I have a Prolong system coming sometime this week. A newbie/stupid question:

How may of these periodic reconditionings can a HV battery be expected to handle? I heard HV batteries are purposely kept between 40% SOC and 80% SOC for battery longevity, by the vehicle. I would imagine periodic reconditionings involving 6 discharges every year probably don't put much dent on battery longevity, but curious about your comments, if they can be at a lay person level.

Thanks in advance.

 

Fewer the better.

My one and only charge/discharge was over a year ago and still looking very good on my g2. Charges are ok there improvement is temporary but discharge is hard on any battery fewer the better.

6 discharges would kill the battery and not necceassary. Do one proper full discharge and see how it goes.

One good discharge should last a long time on a 2010 battery. Diminishing returns on subsequent discharges in my opinion.

The secret is to catch the battery before it’s in bad shape and has not thrown a code. If it’s a fairly healthy battery one good discharge will wake it right up.

 

But that's what @jeff652 is suggesting, right, "For a pack showing normal behavior" in #23.

 

Hi Jeff,

I would be grateful for any way to determine a "weaker battery" vs one showing normal behavior, using something like Hybrid Assistant. Are there some rules of thumb possible, based on numbers shown by Hybrid Assistant, rather than basing it on my frequently faulty perceptions.

Especially if frequent discharges to empty could kill the battery.

Thanks in advance.

 

The Hybrid Automotive website has some signs of a failing pack.

Check out their suggestions.

I installed the Prolong setup and use the equipment several times a year. Our 2010 with 183 k miles on it runs well and had early signs of a failing pack: quick cycling of the HSI display and battery not lasting long in traffic .

But since performing the 2 cycle reconditioning once a year, the pack performs like our 2017 RX450h pack.

I do one 2 cycle reconditioning and one top end balance a year and that’s adequate for our non-failed pack.

The good thing about the Prolong equipment is it can also be used to help rebuild a failed pack and turn it into a runner.

Good luck and keep us posted .

 

I highly suggest you email (or call) Jeff at his business site. He only periodically visits PC. He or someone there will be more than happy to answer all your questions regarding your specific situation.

GOOD LUCK!

 

Did you read this yet? Good stuff!
Prolong® Battery Systems FAQ – Hybrid Automotive


BANG!! Three answers at the same time. This place is amazing.

 

I DID read the FAQ, but didn't find anything that would help answer my question which is:

"any way to determine a "weaker battery" vs one showing normal behavior, using something like Hybrid Assistant. Are there some rules of thumb possible, based on numbers shown by Hybrid Assistant,"

If I missed anything that would help answer my question, I would be grateful being pointed to it.

I didn't think my question was specific to my individual situation; I posted it here for the following reasons:

1. So others would benefit from my "general" question about using hard numbers, when there are concerns (for example @edthefox5 ) that frequent empty discharging might be counterproductive.
2. We would have the answer (whatever it might be) in writing from the experts (in this case @jeff652 ).

I was hoping if more people expressed enthusiasm for my question, @jeff652 would be more inclined to entertain it.

Thanks all.

 

Sorry. I missed that you were looking for something requiring diagnostic equipment. As an engineer myself, I love data. But the warning signs are so obvious that, once you know what to look for, anything more seems to me to be wasted effort.

If you'd like a response from Jeff here on the forum for all to see, I'm sure that now that he's been tagged, he'll have a response next time he logs into PC.

 

Clearly the battery is not doing well as the blocks diverge a lot and codes have been thrown. The Hybrid Automotive rep told me that there's a greater chance of success if I reconditioned with a month of the code being thrown. I guess the longer you wait, the lesser the chances for success. I guess it couldn't hurt to try. I would leave the battery cover on during reconditioning to prevent injury from any bad cells exploding. Also, Hybrid Assistant shows the fan speed and lets you manually ramp up the speed. See if you can hear the fan come on on max speed and lessen the temps. Also, perhaps clean the fan?

 

Firstly let me apologize , @srivenkat , for hijacking this thread. I realised belatedly esp after looking what forum this thread was in but by then it was too late to delete the post .

Yeah I heard the fan power up when I plugged in HA and I could feel significant suction from the vent. I told him we really needed to take a look behind there to check the ventilation to see why he was overheating. I'm actually looking to import one of 2k1's batteries as a last resort if necessary.

But like you I'm trying to find out what sort of metrics I should be looking at to suggest whether it's time to give a prolong treamtent a try. My battery seems fine from tests I've run but I'd love to keep it that way.

 

This is not my thread either, so no need for apologies to me. I was just posting my questions here since they were related to the discussion.

It might be worthwhile to clean the fan and give the Prolong reconditioning a try, unless experienced members of this forum feel it's not a good idea based on the data you provided?

I am a little confused. Are you referring to your own car here that's different from your friend's? If so, yes, it would be good to hear from @jeff652 about any Hybrid Assistant data points to look at to determine the need for the 3-discharge reconditioning cycle.

 

Yeah, I was referring to my own battery. Wanted to know if prolong can save his and when is it time to start maintenance on mine.

 

Current (Amps) is the critical variable that needs to be considered. At moderate to high current (>1A), the 40% to 80% battery SOC window is very important to protect the battery cells against damage. The shallower cells are cycled at moderate to high current levels, the longer they will last. At the very low currents used in Prolong consumer products (<500mA), this is ot an issue. The battery cells can be cycled from 0% to 100% and back to 0% (even experiencing short duration polarity reversal) without any damage. The recovery of usable cell material far exceeds the cycle life loss. Yes, I agree that in theory no cycles is better than cycles, but with no cycling the battery will not last as long, so it is a worthwhile trade off.

We describe the symptoms of an aging battery on our FAQ here "How do I know if my hybrid battery is failing?". If you want to know if the battery is getting weak, the first symptoms are reduction on fuel economy and diminished vehicle performance are what to watch for. You will also see the battery cycling from empty to full faster and not holding a full charge as long as it used to.
Here is the link:
Prolong® Battery Systems FAQ &ndash; Hybrid Automotive

 

Jeff, I read that, the problem with those descriptions is that I bought this car used a few months ago and it's my first hybrid , so terms like 'reduction in fuel economy' and 'diminished vehicle performance' doesn't mean much to me since I don't have a baseline to compare it to. We already get significantly lower fuel economy in our daytime city driving down here compared what's expected in the US etc. It took me awhile to realise this due to comparisons with other owners etc.

However with basic testing tools I have available, namely a variety of apps and an bluetooth OBDII adapter, I can read the kpi's off the battery. If those KPI's are beyond a certain threshold then I'd know the battery could benefit from using your product. It's that threshold I'd love to figure out

 

Thanks, Jeff. I will more confidently do reconditioning of my seemingly-normal 2010 Prius after I do the same on my failing Camry.

As @Cyvan also asks, any objective numbers that could be looked at in reports generated by the Hybrid Assistant app, that can point to the need for reconditioning? As we all know, bad file economy or performance could also be a result of mechanical/fuel/weather issues, so it would be nice to look at some objective numbers and make the determination, if possible.

TIA.