Should I get a 240v charger

Do you want to charge more than once a day? If so, a L2 charger is worth it and a L1 charger is not too practical for that since it takes about 5 hours to fully charge.

 

I am wondering how it would affect my battery life if I charged my car once a day with an L2 charger compared with once a day with the L1. I am assuming that the faster charge would decrease battery life. But if is a minor amount, say 1 or 2 per cent, maybe it isn't worth worrying about.

 

https://www.veic.org/documents/default-source/resources/reports/an-assessment-of-level-1-and-level-2-electric-vehicle-charging-efficiency.pdf

 

Thanks, that is an interesting study. Bottom line, it states that level 2 charging is slightly more than 2% more efficient in the energy used to charge the car. Over the life of the car you would save about $150. versus the cost of $500. to upgrade to a level 2 system. However, my question is this: Will Level 2 charging cause your traction battery to lose its ability to hold a charge earlier than if you had used Level 1 charging over the life of the battery?

 

The purpose of my post was to highlight the fact that the standard EVSE works fine when connected to a 240V line with common off-the-shelf parts when they're properly wired. An adapter would also work fine; I just wanted something a bit more flexible than what I'd get with a short adapter cable, and there are very few options in that respect. So I built my own, and I have no concerns about its safety.

The EVSE works fine with either 120V or 240V, and whichever plug you have on the end, you'll need an adapter to plug into the other voltage source. At home, I can get easy access to both 120V and 240V; but if I travel, I suspect 120V will be more easily available.

Nor do I have any interest in spending $400+ for a permanently wired SECONDARY EVSE (plus wiring costs!) when an inexpensive adapter will work to connect my existing EVSE to 240V outlet and get me the exact same result. (The utility company charges me by the KWh's that I consume anyway, regardless of voltage.)

But for anybody who feels more comfortable hardwiring their EVSE to whichever power source they prefer, I say, go for it.

 

Bisco can chime in here (because he did it) but someone has a service that actually converts the Toyota 120V EVSE to 240, and I think it involves installing heavier gage wiring and works at a derated 12 amps instead of the full 16. What you've done I would say is unsafe. You are putting twice as much power through your 120 V EVSE than it was designed for.

Update: evseupgrade.com will upgrade the PIP EVSE, but not the Prime. I sent a question to them asking why they don't upgrade the Prime EVSE.

 

They won't upgrade it because it's dual voltage already. People in the GM Volt forum have been doing it for a long time and hasn't had any problems. See how long this thread is:
https://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?218442-2016-Volt-120v-EVSE-is-L1-L2-Conversion-Capable

 

Because the research I've done says the EVSE delivered with the Prime was designed from the ground-up to be dual voltage. It's the same thing they sell in countries that take 220/240V only with a different plug on it.

The only thing you need to "upgrade" is the plug. Which some folks here think is dangerous.

If you cut the plug off and you've only got wires, THAT is dangerous.

Some guys at the car dealership suggested all that's needed is a travel adapter to convert the 120V plug to a 240V plug. I didn't believe them, but at this point I'm thinking they might have been spot on.

The EVSE draws about the same current as a small refrigerator or heating/cooling unit. If all you need for them is an adapter, then why not the EVSE?

Again, people are looking at the sticker on the back that says it's only rated for 120V. That's most likely because of the PLUG, which is NOT rated for anything OTHER THAN 120V.

If you open it up and look at the components, the wiring, everything that's there, it's designed for dual-voltage.

Just not the plug. In the same way that one with a 240V plug on it isn't going to say it's rated for 120v.

It's the PLUG. Not the electronics inside the box. It just needs an adapter.

And you don't need to restrict the max current at 240V either. (Although it seems to do that automatically when it's hot outside, which wouldn't surprise me. We've been hitting or tying record high lows this week. One night the LOW was 95, setting a record that for that date that was 93. I've noticed the charger is taking longer lately, probably because it is adapting to the higher ambient temps.)

 

I got a reply back from evseupgrade.com and they said that there are components internal to the Prime EVSE that are not rated for 240v.

 

Hmmm ... I'd get a second opinion from someone who's livelihood is not depending on that.

Right now it's working just fine.

I'll let you know when / if my unit dies and how many charges it survived. I use it daily. It does not get hot, and there doesn't seem to be any problem with the juice it's sending to the batteries. So I'm not concerned.

After it dies, I'll replace it with another dual-voltage device that will still be cheaper than a standalone hard-wired 240V EVSE.

(I could not figure out a scenario where a second dedicated EVSE pays for itself. There's no discount on the electricity for using 240V vs. 120V, and we don't get more mileage or any benefit other than faster charging times. Two of these things are still cheaper than a standalone 240V device, not including the costs of installing the damn thing. Not to mention that I don't want a permanent installation, and my state only provides me with a $75 "incentive" which I don't think will pay an electrician to hook it up.)

 

Have you disassembled your EVSE to verify that there are no components labeled 120V? If not, you're just making a guess on all of this.

 

Honestly, I try to verify from a source that is not in the business of selling these. No reason for them to be honest about it and lots of reasons to tell you otherwise. Just the world we live in now.

 

Of course there are components that are not rated for 240V. Digital circuits run on 5V or less! The question is whether there are parts rated at 120V that have to be upgraded for 240V use. Apparently not.

 

Apparently yes, according to evseupgrade.com.

 

Leaf owners were not so lucky I heard I can just put a 240V plug on my cord and don't need your upgrade, is this true? EVSE Upgrade

 

People have been plugging their Prime EVSE into 240V without any reported disasters (yet). What we don't know is if some components are really not rated for 240V and are being pushed right to edge of failing. A component rated for X volts won't fail with X+1 volts, but there is no way to know exactly how over-designed it is, and there is variability among individual items in the same batch. One might fail at 1.5 times the rated value, another at maybe 2 times the rated value, and maybe some that fail at 1.2 times the rated value. You never know. The manufacturer just promises that it will work at the rated voltage, not how much further it can be pushed before it fails. I am not an electrical engineer, so I cannot state what the manufacturing standards are for over-designing the capacitors and other components in the EVSE.

Apparently, there is no question with the Volt EVSE, and it is fine to use it with 240V.

 

I'm an engineer / math guy who writes software for a living. I've designed some electronic circuits, and I prefer software because it doesn't catch fire when you make a mistake. I also think like an engineer.

These devices are nothing more than a SMART SWITCH.

There's an input circuit with high voltage wiring, some kind of a switch (TRIACS, MOSFETS, etc) and some (low-voltage, low-current) logic that sniffs around to make sure everything is operating within nominal design parameters. I suspect most of the circuitry inside the box is not rated for more than 12V DC, and probably operates at 5V DC. Yes, I'm just guessing, although I've seen photos of the guts of these units online along with what others have found.

The logic inside the box is there to PROTECT the SWITCH, as well as the VEHICLE.

Consider that the VEHICLE is designed to accept both 120V and 240V AC charging currents. So passing through 240V AC would not do any damage to the vehicles.

The internal logic only sees voltage levels. I cannot imagine it would pass through 240V if it was not designed to do that safely.

Also, the internal logic has no idea what kind of mechanical PLUG is attached -- if any. That is, it could be hardwired to a circuit panel somewhere. In particular, it wouldn't know if you employ adapters to allow it to plug into sockets with different voltages.

BTW, we here in America use 60 Hz for our AC power. Much of the rest of the world uses 50 Hz. I don't see anybody here bothering to mention that tidbit of information.

Probably because as a SWITCH, it doesn't particularly care about either the voltage or the frequency it's working at. As long as the VEHICLE is designed to handle it, it will pass it through.

The CHARGER is in the vehicle. THIS IS A SWITCH. It's designed to shut down if anything is operating outside of nominal ranges.

The fact that it passes through 240V does not seem to be a mere "design flaw" to me.

If ANY part of the circuitry or wiring wasn't designed to handle 240V AC safely, then I cannot imagine why it would turn the switch ON and pass it through to the vehicle.

 

You are correct that it is a glorified smart switch attached to an extension cord. HOWEVER, the logic guts that operate at low voltage DC need to get that from somewhere which means there is an offline converter inside (Wall AC to LV DC). These converters can be made "universal" in that they accept basically anything from DC to 100Hz+ and from 85VAC to 265VAC+. A basic don't care circuit that just regulates. However if you are pinching pennies, it is quite a bit cheaper to make a circuit that takes in a specific voltage like 120VAC +/- 10% at 60Hz and makes 5VDC. If you give it 240VAC it makes 10VDC. Things go BOOM.

Similarly the "switch" itself has to be rated for both the VGS which will change with a higher low voltage DC voltage as well as the VDS which now is double. These devices are much more costly than a comparable one that will work fine at 120V but not 150V.

This is why it is trivial to design a "universal" EVSE, and that's exactly what you can buy on eBay or AliExpress from thousands of faceless Chinese companies. Just make sure to select stuff that can handle it and has actual regulation without assumptions on what is being fed. But the EVSEs from Toyota or Nissan usually go for the lowest possible cost. If you are buying a car in North America, it is very unlikely that car will ever travel outside North America to the land of 240VAC and if it does, Toyota don't care it's not up to them to warranty. Just like when they are sold in the lands of 240VAC nobody is going to import these back to the US. I haven't taken apart a Toyota EVSE. But I have taken apart a Nissan EVSE. And there are multiple components inside that will fry at 240VAC. The car doesn't car, the charger is made for it. But the EVSE itself is not made for it. There is at least 1 cap in there that will smoke and blow up with that voltage. The low voltage side is regulated so that's OK but the bulk VIN caps are not rated for it. They will explode eventually, and you'll probably never notice unless you take it apart again. But now your low voltage electronics have a power supply that is turning on and off 60 times a second versus going from full input to less than full input making the regulator work harder and more stress on the VOUT caps. You'll be drooping all over the place.

 

Thought about 240V dedicated charger in garage, but realized to do that, I have to dig under asphalt paving in between house and garage and install subpanel. Too much cost for just a few hours fast charge. I will stick with 120V for now. I will revisit the situation, if I decide to install PV panels on the garage roof.

 

Usually with driveways it is a very thin layer, even with concrete. You use a horizontal drill and push through some conduit from whatever borders the driveway like lawn.