Toyota Owners Jump Ship to Tesla

Bummer.

 

He must have gotten a lemon, har, har. I've driven over 140,000 miles over 7 years, in 2 plug-in Prii, the latter a Prime Advanced with no repairs, other than 2 flat tires (not Toyota's fault). I have used The Toyota Place, a Toyota DEALERSHIP (that crucero guy can't spell...) for all my scheduled service and am satisfied with their service and prices.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
AChoiredTaste.com

 

Or fire. F150 production had to cease for a week because of a fire at a supplier.

The Model S and X use induction motors because there were valid concerns over rare earth mineral supplies at the time. The Model 3 has permanent rare earth magnets in the motor for better cost and efficiency. The Model 3 is also using improved battery cells for the same reasons. At some future date, the S and X will move to it, but doing so now means writing off the investment into the supply line for their current cells and paying to recertify the cars with the newer cells. Toyota is still using NiMH for many of the same reasons.

The Semi will be using the same motors and batteries as the Model 3.

The Tundra is a bloated FSP. Going back to the previous generation would be an improvement, but that would steal sales from the Tacoma.

Toyota might have given up on the full size truck market in the US. Truck buyers tend to be very loyal here, and they seem to keep missing what that market wants. The T100 and gen1 Tundra were on the small end of the segment when the consumer wanted big. When the consumer was finally interested in fuel economy, they released the thirstiest truck to the market. Toyota might make a dent in Nissan's or Ram's sales with a future model, but I don't see them hurting Ford or GM.

The hybrid market may have helped create demand for plug ins, but Toyota did not plant the seeds for a BEV. That started with the first ZEV program, and the EV1 was the big star from back then.

"The company was founded in 2003 by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning, ... The founders were influenced to start the company after GM recalled and destroyed its EV1 electric cars in 2003." - Tesla, Inc. - Wikipedia

Tesla was founded because there were people that wanted a BEV, but the established car makers refused to build one. Toyota was destroying Rav4 EVs along side GM and the EV1s until they gave in to public pressure.

Toyota contracting the new Rav4 EV to Tesla did help them, though Mercedes had made a similar investment. But then Toyota's in house BEV for CARB compliance was, well, crap, and the deal with Tesla let them dump the NUMMI plant(now Tesla's Fremont plant) they were saddled with after GM's bankruptcy without losing face.

 

You're taking the statement too literally. Yes, the very limited production EV1 came first but it was the millions of everyday people who first experienced the benefits of the ev drive in hybrid designs who later became the first customers for current PHEV/BEV offerings. Pointing out conquest sales of Toyota/hybrid customers as a sign of a successful launch of those offerings.

 

That is a stretch. Many of these early adopters didn't become early adopters because of the Prius, they already were. The Prius was just a great advance.
If the Prius didn't exist, these early adopters would have bought something else.
Yes, a number of former Prius owners moved on to BEVs, but that isn't due to the Prius. It is due to the buyers.

 

Yes, but Tesla the company didn't start because of hybrids, and the gen1 Prius and Insight were available for a couple of years before its founding. The BEVs available to people in California before they arrived is what seeded the demand for plug ins. In fact, there were old posters here who bought a Prius because it was the closest to an EV available on the market. I would not be surprised if those leaving Toyota for Tesla in the OP were of a similar mindset.

Toyota and hybrids helped grow demand for plug ins in general. Which would have helped the Leaf, but if the Leaf was the only BEV on the market, the plug in segment would not have grown as it had. Tesla started because the founders wanted a BEV that could replace the ICE car, and they knew no legacy car company was going to make such a car. Then their business model made their cars desirable for reasons beyond being a BEV. Many who had purchased a Model S had never owned a hybrid before.

 

I've test driven a couple of Tundras over the years and really liked them, but some of the things I've seen online have scared me off. Rusting frames for one, and this Ford video for another (I do drive dirt roads during mud season, and they get extremely washboardy at times):

And of course, it's very hard to compete on price with free (we inherited our F-150).

But I think we both agree that Toyota has missed the mark for the full sized truck market. And they also missed by going with FCEV instead of BEV, so maybe they're not infallible. Hey look, I brought the discussion back to the neighborhood of the original topic.

 

Some of the issues arise from not being local to the market during design. The rusting beds of the first Hilux/Tacoma in the US was because Japan doesn't salt roads, so Toyota engineers simply didn't know what road salt could do to a car. The early FSP Tundrahad a tailgate that bent under heavy loads. They likely took the 200 to 250 pound limit the American makes listed as a technical one as oppose to a legal, CYA one, and under engineered the tailgate's strength.

I'd love an used 4WD for beach access, and the Tacoma would be perfect, but past periods of rust issues have me concerned. Then a used Ford or GM full size would likely be cheaper because of the supply.

The F150 has a diesel option now, and a hybrid one coming for 2020. GM will have a diesel next year, along with dynamic cylinder deactivation in the V8s, and a 4 cylinder turbo with the old cylinder deactivation. The current Tundra came out in 2014, so we should be hearing some news about it. To bring this back to the OP, the Tesla pick up may be a contender for Toyota and others to consider.

 

I believe their stated target has been 5K/week, and they’re up to nearly 4K, including the “tent.”

 

maybe they will be able to increase production to 5k by increasing the speed of the existing lines, rather than adding another.

 

Looks like they hit the 5k with 6k a good possibility in another month.

 

nice! any articles to read?

 

Here's one, straight from the horses mouth, which is where other sources are getting their information

 

this has got to be killing the shorters, i love it!

 

Actually...weird story about the stock today. Stock was up almost 6% early in the session. Then an analyst changed his rating from hold to sell and the stock finished down 2%. Pretty crazy.

 

I guess that analyst doesn’t watch the news...

 

The main bear case is they still believe it is unsustainable and/or they will still have too much cash burn

 

Still burning through cash. That's the real concern.

 

Being unsustainable is getting to be a harder case to make, but yes, not entirely implausible.

Pretty substantial revenue coming in now though (finally!): 5.5K Model 3s at $50K each is over a quarter billion *per week.*

Plus, of course they’re still selling Model Ses and Xes at $100Kish each (typical price).