Toyota Owners Jump Ship to Tesla

Yes the same company that returned all their deposits on hold, to prove they did not need to operate on reservation deposits. Nikoli has over 8 Billion dollars in pre-order reservations.

 

Great! What is the status of Nikola as a viable business?

Just a small tidbit from the press release. They say they have received three billion USD in preorders.

At ~500k USD per truck, that's 6000 reservations. And at 1500 USD per reservation, that means they've received 9 million USD in reservations.

That should be enough to pay for a few press releases. But I doubt it pays for much of anything beyond that. Assuming 10 million USD per hydrogen fueling station (which should be enough to have stations capable of refilling 10 trucks per day, and includes a 4.4 MW solar array per station), they will need 560 million USD for the hydrogen fueling stations, and let's say 400 million USD for the development of the truck. Plus production facilities, service and sales, etc. I'm thinking 2 billion USD is the minimum of what they need. (*And that amount is what they are suing Tesla for!)

Also, the hydrogen fueling stations will combined produce around 44.8 tons of hydrogen per day, or about 670,000 miles per day. Assuming 400 miles per day for an average truck, that means the 560 million USD hydrogen fueling network can support 1675 trucks. Or put differently, the cost of the hydrogen fueling network, is 335k USD *per truck*. So, for that 500k USD 7 year lease, they only have around 165k USD for the development and production of the truck.

Now, a 340 kWh battery will likely cost 100k USD, which leaves 65k USD for the rest of the truck. And you would likely need around a 200 kW fuel cell, which will likely cost around 20k USD. That leaves 45k USD. And you need a ~80 kg hydrogen tank, which will cost something like 25k USD, which leaves 20k for the rest of the truck. Plus six 150 hp motors, at say 3000 USD each, leaving 2k USD for the rest of the truck.

Yeah, I find it hard to see the realism.
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This is all from two years ago and what do they have to show for it? A lawsuit against Tesla!​

 

Did you miss the part where they have 8 billion dollars in pre orders?!

 

Boston area meet-up? I work only a couple miles from the Legal Seafood in Natick. Or if you like sushi Oga's has the best.

 

Nothing lasts forever:

• Gen-1 - Oct 2005 to May 2016, replaced by 2014 BMW i3-REx
• Gen-3 - May 2009 to Dec 2016, replaced by 2017 Prius Prime

Operational experience:

• +90% EV miles which are less than 1/2 the cost of gas miles
• 700 miles - longest BMW i3-REx trip, ~17 gal, ~68 mph
• 1,200 miles - longest Prius Prime trip, ~21 gal, ~78 mph
• dynamic cruise control: optical BMW i3-REx and; radar+optical Prime
• broken BMW i3-REx engine mount bolt warranty replaced by much stronger part
• Prime took out mailbox and deformed right rear quarter panel repaired at home

Although the Tesla trend lines look good, this retired, 68 year old man and his wife are not tempted.

Bob Wilson

 

Something to consider.
Oil giant Shell buys electric car charging company

 

That isn't cash they received, that is the theoretical value of the product if it is ever built. According to you, Nikola has returned any cash deposits. Nikola is playing word games and has sucked you in! That is like saying Tesla received $20 trillion in pre-orders (~500K pre-orders x ~$40K avg. price per car) which is true but it is not cash. Tesla actually received about $500 million in cash for those pre-orders (~500K x $1k deposit) which they cannot spend because those deposits are in an escrow account until a car is delivered.

 

btw, when you start a thread in the tesla forum on priuschat with a title like this one (hill), you should expect some friendly pushback.

 

This is what has been quoted in news and sent out by Nikoli.

“All reservations will be refunded 100% and you won't lose your place in line. We don’t use your money to operate our business. We want everyone to know we have never used a dollar of deposit money in the history of our company. All deposits will be refunded < 60 days,” the company wrote in Twitter last week, just days after a teasing tweet about a large order.

 

I applaud your choices in personal transportation. You look like a future model 3 owner to me.

I have a question, wouldn't a model 3 with 310+ mile BEV range priced at $49K be a better choice than a BMW I3 REx with 80 miles BEV range priced at $50K with no supercharger network? I realize that you apparently purchased a used I3 in 2016 before any model 3s were available, but the model 3 does seem to be a compelling choice when it becomes time to replace the I3.

 

Yes Shell is looking at alternatives including Hydrogen.

 

When it becomes time to replace for him, he will have many more choices from BMW and other manufactures. Tesla may be enjoying the moment, but within a few years it will be a different ballgame.

 

I certainly hope so. If not Tesla would have failed in their mission.

 

So there you have it. A company cannot legally spend deposit money, it is against the law. It must be held in an escrow account until a product is delivered. Nikola is playing word games here. The future value of their sales, however many billion it is, is a theoretical number based on potential future sales and none of their reservationists have any money committed to following through on their reservation.

@orenji the company name is Nikola as in Nikola Tesla, the electrical genius who was screwed by Thomas Edison.

 

Well maybe the two companies can merge and utilize the full name, since they both seem to be walking down the same path, whatever that may be.

 

If BMW puts out an I3 with 80 mile range for $50K, how much will a BMW with 200 mile range cost? $80K? Yep that will certainly be a competitor for the $35K model 3.

I'm still waiting for that Toyota BEV that you say is coming out in 2019!

 

I have a headache from all of this! I see myself like Jay Leno, I like all car brands. They all have a history. Tesla to me is a cool vehicle, model 3 not my taste, but that's okay. I hope Tesla does well. But I know that when the day comes for me to adopt an alternative fuel vehicle it will be from Toyota. @el Crucero maybe see ya at our next planned cruise.

 

Hey, I'm all for it, especially if "money bags @bisco" is buying! The only sushi I eat is "California Roll" (electrons wrapped in $1,000 bills)