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Corolla Hybrid - 2018 Fuel spec.?

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by davids45, May 26, 2018.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    In part, it's because of the ethanol mandate. The other is that it could be a cheaper octane booster, depending on the market for the petroleum sourced compounds usually used for raising octane.
     
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  2. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    ???
     
  3. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Some servos here (a nearby BP for instance) have, UNLEADED - and in small print on the Bowser, "with up to 10% Ethanol" - it's rubbish, but they're charging 91 price. The same servo, doesn't have 95 - only 98 - astronomically dearer. I went down the road to CALTEX.
     
  4. davids45

    davids45 Active Member

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    G'day,

    I'm a bit intrigued by the use of the 'term fuel' economy without mention of money :) .
    Although Alan from just outside Brisbane gave a local example which did give a whiff of fiscality in his above post.

    My impression that around here (top left corner of my avatar), well south of Brisbane, what is called 'Premium' has a premium of around 20 cents a Litre - about a dollar gallon in Imperial countries.

    If the Prius v also has a high RON specified fuel (95?), has any 'v' owner tried E10 (at 94 RON) for any reasonable time and noticed a difference in 'economy' (be it fiscal or fuel), or 'performance' (which seems to me to mean excessive acceleration for short periods - being first to the next red light)?

    David S.
     
  5. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Just thinking - a number of TAXI companies have both Gen 3 and Prius v fleets - you could give them a ring and ask what fuel they use. I was told by my salesman (used to be PRIUS mechanic) that mechanically it is identical to Gen3.
     
  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    One reason for Premium in OZ could have to do with allowable gaso additives. For example, manganese which I am not sure if still allowed as additive in some countries. Just speculating....
     
  7. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Not sure if sulphur content has anything to do with it:

    "The octane rating is 91 RON and the sulphur content is 150 parts per million (ppm), which is one of the highest figures globally ... . Australia is massively out of step with the rest of the world. While our premium unleaded might be 95 RON, the sulphur content is still very high at 50ppm." from Motoring.com.au - March 28, 2017 (and other similar reports - talking about phasing out both 91 and E10).
     
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    More sulfur in fuel leads to more emissions, and that is before it poisons the catalytic converter. The amount in US gas is 30ppm, going down to 15ppm.

    If higher sulfur is the reason for not using regular in Australia for the gen3 Prius and Corolla hybrid, why is allowed in the gen4 and Prius c? Are the latter certified for more emissions?
     
  9. davids45

    davids45 Active Member

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    G'day,

    My understanding (admittedly from about 50 years ago) is the required minimum RON for a car's fuel is determined by the mechanical engineers designing the I.C. engine's combustion cycle - how much the fuel-air mix is squashed by the piston in the cylinder before the spark plug ignites the mix.
    It's up to the petroleum chemists to deliver the mix of petroleum distillates and other combustible liquids that will not pre-ignite (spontaneously explode) inside the car's cylinders before the engineers want it to. Other factors in the fuel are important such as volatility, and cost no doubt but the RON is just about compression-ignition.

    Although there could be a bit of a 'chicken and egg' here, the design engineers taking into account what fuels are readily available for their car-buying customers - I think Toyota generally design engines to run on lower RON fuels hence Toyotas are more usable in more parts of the world.

    Fuel mixes used to be compared to an octane isomer as 100 for this pure octane (I forget which octane exactly but it is a branched molecule) and mixtures of this octane with a linear hydrocarbon (heptane? - one that mixed with air ignites at much lower applied pressure).
    Hence the Research Octane Number = the %octane in a mixture with heptane that explodes/ignites at the same test pressure (and other fixed parameters necessary in a standard test) as the fuel being rated.
    A RON fuel of 95 has the same under-test compression ignition behaviour as a 95% octane - 5% heptane fuel mix.

    Other aspects such as the sulphur level are important regarding pollution limits set by the local government but don't impact on the effect of the RON on the engine operation.

    Except perhaps when remembering the introduction of the particularly nasty tetraethyl lead (by Du Pont?) enabled lower RON fuels to have their RON increased considerably. The 'good' old days before H&S and EPA.......not.

    David S.
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That's pretty much it.
    But it is still a mystery why a gen3 Prius and other hybrids with that drivetrain need premium in Australia, but only regular elsewhere.
     
  11. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Not sure if this explains anything:
    upload_2018-5-30_11-57-43.png
     
  12. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    That could be a good idea re: sulfur, but although they are calling 150 ppm high sulfur, in the old days sulfur was much higher, so it doesn't scare me too much...but yes it would reduce effectiveness of the cat converter. In the U.S. they always clobber the big oil with very low regulatory limits and ethanol mandates, etc., but smaller companies are given exclusions. So it would not surprise me if back in 2004-2008 Gen2 days something like 150 ppm sulfur may have been common in USA, not sure. I wonder what smaller companies are allowed to do today.

    As far as calling 50 ppm S "very high", USA was there until maybe 5 or 6 years ago we had a lower sulfur put in place, and probably that rule is still phasing in although we must be getting near full implementation.

    I always thought gaso would smell better with near zero sulfuir, but it still stinks. Must be that the detergent additives are stinky.
     
    #32 wjtracy, May 30, 2018
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  13. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Could it be related to CAFE standards?
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota might be worried about high sulfur, it influences particle emissions, leading to deposit build up in engines with the older EGR. That might be a problem regardless though

    The 30ppm limit came into effect during Bush's presidency, at least according to the website where it. I do know that the 15ppm limit started phasing in last year. It might be that low in Europe already.

    Waviers could be issued for some, but in the case of the switch to ULSD smaller refineries were just given longer to comply. By this time, they should be in compliance. Even off road diesel and heating oil should be ULSD by now.

    ULSD does smell a whole lot better than the old heating oil I use to use.
     
    #34 Trollbait, May 30, 2018
    Last edited: May 30, 2018