Toyota Owners Jump Ship to Tesla

That is simply not true. Tesla is constantly improving heir cars (at no cost to owners) through over the air updates. And every new Toyota model is an entirely new design.

Seeking Alpha is a known Tesla troll populated by TSLA stock short sellers who have no credibility.

You missed the part where it said the repairs were not made by Tesla but an independent body shop and 95% of the cost was for "labor." Sounds like a scam to me.

You also missed this comment:

The article doesn't offer a comparison for the same company for other cars, it would be interesting to see how much an easier to match paint in that same spot and see how many hours they'd charge. I got a 6000 quote for hail damage in my black 2010 corolla for 3 parts: the front lid, the roof and the trunk lid. The front and trunk lid were the cheapest (starting at $400-500), as they buy a new part already painted and replace it easily, but the roof they charged around $50 per dent as they fix repaint it (plus the assembly and disassembly time). I forgot the rates now but were probably around $90/h as this is Missouri.​

New company, new model, entirely new design. Just realize what you are doing to the environment with hydro-carbons in the meantime.

 

@el Crucer

I'm not buying that. Tesla doesn't build cars like Toyota as Elon puts quantity over quality. Its production system is inefficient costing the company millions on operating cost. The company needs to learn Deming's 14 points and implement a Just-In-Time system, to eliminate, waste, cost, time, defects, over production. Quality should be a top priority not last. That's why Toyota's Production System is "Human Centralized" Tesla relies on too much automation.

"Seeking Alpha is a known Tesla troll populated by TSLA stock short sellers who have no credibility."

I can tell you never bothered taking the time to read the link as there is some truth to that if you read it. It basically saying the same thing I'm saying.






Just-in-time manufacturing - Wikipedia

Toyota Global Site | Production System

Do realize these cars are very over engineered as a great portion of the car had to been taken apart just replace the damage body panel due to the use of aluminum metal. That's why body repairs on Tesla's are very expensive.

Insane cost of repair; Tesla's Achilles heel | Tesla

Tesla Model S Aluminum Body: Why Repair Costs Are Higher

"That is simply not true. Tesla is constantly improving heir cars (at no cost to owners) through over the air updates. And every new Toyota model is an entirely new design."

You are way wrong. Read on the Toyota Production System and the company's philosophy. Toyota has a much longer development life cycle than most other car manufactures as historically Toyota has never released a new model car with an entirely new engine each time a new model comes out. When you look back with in the past 20 years, you will notice many Toyota models stuck using the same engine designs for decades rather than designing a whole new engine each time a new model comes out without compromising reliability and quality. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. This is where, kaizen comes in when making small incremental changes and improvements to existing engines through the years. Toyota as a company is not about taking risks on new designs and following the latest trendy electronic gizmo's like other auto makers. The Late model 4Runner is pretty old school and bare bones, compared other trucks and SUVs. The 1nz-fxe is one the oldest Toyota engine still in production today, from 1997 to present it’s still used in the current Toyota Prius C and Yaris.

Still using the same 1GR-FE V6 engine found in the 4th Gen 4Runner produced from 2002-2009.

On going inspection, is a continuous process through out the entire assembly process to detect any defects. Once a defect is detected, anyone on the production line can stop production at any given time to eliminate the defective parts. On the Toyota Production System, there is a system called Takt Time. Takt time is used when a problem is found or assembly worker not able to finish in a timing manner to prevent slowing down production. Takt time - Wikipedia This is another area that Tesla struggles with manufacturing defects esp with body panel gaps. Most manufactures inspects vehicles after they were fully assembled, resulting in manufacturing defects that gotten missed meaning more lemons getting produced out the door.

"Tesla is constantly improving heir cars (at no cost to owners) through over the air updates."

That's quite laughable as you can't fix everything with a software update as you have physical defects to deal with as well. Not to mention all the those electronic door handles that a lot of model S owners has been going through costing them a $1,000 each to replace that were past the 4 year 50k mile warranty.

The new Toyota EV Common Architecture Spirit Co Ltd will be producing EV's based off its proven trusted Prius platform.
Toyota and Mazda are making a new company to develop electric cars - The Verge

 

FUD

 

Apparently you just reply without taking the time to read. I did the home work for you. Hell, even Elon Musk admits, automation is a problem. Elon Musk admits 'too much automation' is slowing Tesla Model 3 production

 

Pass me the popcorn!

 

@eman08 please read the whole article rather than post based off headlines. That Verge article states that the new company will be using a modular architecture like Toyota uses with the Prius and Camry. That just means it will be similar to TNGA but likely different.

 

Ironically, Toyota is really not "marketing" Primes either, at least in Southern California, that I know. They're relying on word-of-mouth to sell the car; there are no ads! It feels like most of these manufacturers just push their money grubbing SUVs and trucks, as long as the masses will suck 'em up. I'm waiting for those nice, big fat gasoline price increases to bring back religion to the marketplace! Then let the whining begin. Hopefully solid state battery technology, and other improvements will provide a clean, viable solution for our personal transportation needs.
Of course the advent of electrified SUVs and trucks should make many happy (ugh, did I say that?!).
Maybe some of the big boys will start thinking more about modular battery designs, where instead of an ICE engine overhaul, people will get a battery replacement/upgrade in their BEV or hybrid. The industry is definitely exciting!

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AChoiredTaste.com

 

Toyota Prii, especially Primes are selling decently, DESPITE not being promoted, advertised, "Marketed" properly by the company and its dealers. I read about the Prime in my various automotive magazines, but never saw an ad for the 6 months or more I waited for the car to arrive. The dealers I left my number with to call me when the car was available, never called. THAT'S poor marketing!

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AChoiredTaste.com

 

I looked at the ryobi electric riding mower last year. Pretty cool, but you can’t try it and return it.
$2,500. Is a big risk. This year, I didn’t see it on display.

 

You forgot blind-spot monitoring, rear camera, and beer can holder (in my case, Martinelli's Sparkling Apple Juice holder!).

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AChoiredTaste.com

 

Toyota is not behind at all as there is no rush since the EV market barely exist that only makes up 2% of car sales in the U.S. Hardly any of the gaint auto makers are making any money off of EVs as the majority of sales are truck's and cross overs and SUVs. Dealerships don't push EVs as they don't want EVs on thier lots when they have to keep clearing inventory since ICE are thier primary sales. Toyota said they will step in the EV market when there is a large demand for it. It could be 15 years from now before EV eventually start taking over ICE. Toyota already signed a new contract with Panasonic it's primary battery supplier to start building EVs for the Chinese market. I'm certain I wouldn't be buying a Tesla. I'm not a fan of Planned Obsolescence and expensive repair bills. Yet the $35,000 priced model 3 doesn't even exist as only the the $57k-70k exist. Tesla competes more in the luxury premium car market with Mercedes and BMW rather than main stream. The only main stream players right now is Nissan and GM. Honda is looking into building an EV soon. They are just getting their feet wet. More and more manufacturers are investing into hybrids, electrifying all of thier products lines such as Ford. ICE isn't going away any time soon, not for a very long time.

 

Word-Of-Mouth has been how all of the Prius were originally sold. Toyota wants the limited initial supply to go to the well-informed... which means knowing someone who already owns one. It's you and I that begin the process, sharing what we experience firsthand. That information reaches those who seek it, the savvy online participants, who ask questions in return.

Think about how long it takes just to gather enough real-world data to set realistic expectations. Greenwash & Disenchantment are problems avoided by targeting specific audiences first. The wider market will naturally follow, once there is a path laid down by us. In fact, we're the ones who provided detail about how Toyota should formulate the general audience advertisements.

It's a sad reality watching the cycle repeat. That desperation for profit leads automakers down that easy path, one that's self-destructive. They don't care though. It is very much a live-in-the-now situation. Leaving their successors to clean up the mess is a normal part of the game they play.

We saw that happen before the recession. Unfortunately, we have even seen it happen with plug-ins. Remember how literally everyone involved with the Volt development program "moved on" prior to rollout? That makes no sense whatsoever. You don't work on a project for years, then walkaway just before people begin to use what you developed. It was an "abandon ship" no one seems to actually notice.

We're going through that again. These big guzzlers don't have anyone to be held accountable when things go bad... which they inevitably will. The price of gas is going up and mainstream consumers are witnessing hints of plug-in success. From our perspective (the well informed), we are witnessing quite a fight taking place to retain the status quo.

The only fortunate thing out of the @#%$!& guzzler mess is those unnecessarily large commuter vehicles can accommodate a battery-pack easier than a car. That wasteful space in a SUV can actually be used for some good. True, those vehicles will be expensive & inefficient compared to the likes of Prius Prime, but buyers of SUVs aren't known for placing a high priority on cost-of-ownership anyway.

 

A thought has crossed my mind several times: if you took one foot out of all the trucks, SUVs, and vans out there today, with the 1 million or so cars of traffic we have here in Southern California daily, that million feet of space would improve the traffic situation considerably! Size matters!!

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AChoiredTaste.com

 

I don't see any sense in saddling the prius with an advertising expense. Everyone who wants one knows where they can get it, and the cars are already carrying a price premium for the extra drivetrain content.

Maybe they would catch more edge-case shoppers like me? We were interested in the Yaris, but dissatisfied by out-of-date transmission and safety technology in that car. I have no way of knowing whether anyone else followed a similar decision path but I suspect not many have- not enough to justify advertising anyway.

 

are you saying it will be too late for toyota to get in the game when the market is large enough and profits are higher?

 

Do realize Crossover sales include Hybrid crossovers. The Prius on the other hand is loosing a lot of market share as no one is buying traditional four door cars anymore with the exception of high end premium car's. It's all about tall CUVs and trucks these days. Hybrids and pluggins are evolving into new form factors as both Toyota and Ford are looking to expand Hybrids to trucks. Toyota's majority of it's current Lexus line up are becoming more electrified with the LS500h, ES, RX, NX, LC and GS. Auto makers are forced to come up with ways to make it's vechicles more fuel efficient due to all the regulations which is why many cars are coming turbo charged to get better gas mileage but most people would be driving them like a maniac.