Toyota Owners Jump Ship to Tesla

yes, you can see how hard gm has worked to move volt tech into other passenger vehicles.

 

How long will it take to recover the investment you made in the Prime over a ICE and the PV on the roof?

I take 2 or 3 long trips a year and each time I do I look up what charging infrastructure is available to me on my route. During those trips, time is of the essence. I have only so much time with the grandkids and they have only so much time before getting on each others nerves. I have yet to find a single trip where chargers would be available by the side of the road or just off the off-ramp and equipped with bathrooms to satisfy the bladder frequency needs of the entire family. My message to them as they climb out of the car is to be back and buckled-in in 15 minutes, not 30-45. I have yet to stay at a place with a charger of any sort at my destination. I look. Gas stations are all around and they have enough pumps that there is seldom a wait.

The big drop in cost per mile is from the low 20s (or from premium gas) to regular at twice the MPG. My gas expenses for a hybrid wagon have ranged from about $320 to $640 a year. I bought a hybrid when gas was climbing towards $4 but it has been so far from there for the last 5 years that the spreadsheet numbers that showed me the economics of the purchase then have been obliterated by market and production forces so even at 42 MPG the additional hybrid cost makes only marginal sense once you factor in the opportunity costs of not investing the purchase price difference between an ICE at the time and a hybrid with the same features and utility. I could have bought twice as much gas and still been about even. I like my money in appreciating assets, not depreciating ones. Even if I do have to drive a depreciating one. I do tend to follow a 10 year car ownership pattern.

There is a GM dealer in the small NC city I live in and they finally got a Bolt in. Does it have the utility of my hybrid wagon? No. No 6 foot Xmas tree, no luggage and stuff for 4-5 for a week at the beach, no typical load of refuse to the recycle plant. No confidence if I had a problem the GM dealer who had sold just one would have experience or parts enough to fix it promptly. It is bad enough fixing an unusual problem with a hybrid at my very local and very friendly and trying hard Toyota dealer. Nearest Tesla sales location is 60 miles from me. No Teslas seen in the area.

No reason I need an EV, I do want one and could afford a 3 (the S or X makes no financial sense even if electricity were free and they just seem huge). I like toys and generally have been an alfa tester on lots of things. Never had a first year of manufacture car work beyond 2-3 years.

I can't make the economics or convenience arguments work for me.

 

This is a well known in regards to Li-ion; the electrolyte needs to be above freezing to avoid damage during charging. It doesn't explain why Toyota was years behind other hybrid, PHEV, and BEV manufacturers in using it.

Who says?

That is a perfectly fine strategy.
It just means Toyota has returned to being a follower instead of a pioneer.

Let's see; ELR, Malibu hybrid, CT6 PHEV, and I think a Caddy SUV is getting a PHEV. Plus a couple of Buicks in China.

Remember, if the government had its way, there wouldn't have been a Volt.

 

Estima didn't take that long.

Toyota was starting from scratch too, not building upon well over a decade of experience as with GM.

Again, circumstances now are very different from back in the day.

 

if ev's were making a profit as large as gassers, and as many people wanted them as some of you think they do, there would be more of them. the market rules, and manufacturers follow. every now and then, uncle sam sticks his foot out to trip people up.

 

all of you who think toyota invented the hybrid to save the world need to relearn your history.

 

This is 2018, so it is "all states" (at the bottom of the chart). How could they be further along?

 

We tend to forget being in the US that the world does not revolve around us as much as we think it does. Gas is expensive in many parts of the world where there is no domestic oil. Toyota is a global manufacturer.

 

They did because of Japanese government incentives and programs, and worries over what the American companies might bring to market with the NGFV program. They didn't need to worry about that last one.

That's because of import tariffs, not fuel preferences. Locally manufactured hybrids(Yaris, Auris) are seeing sales increases as the public as become disillusioned over diesel with the scandals. I think Europe has pushed North America out as the number two hybrid market.

 

exactly. they weren't interested in leading the way to a new world then, and they aren't interested now.

musk has somewhat taken that approach, but not without help from government and plenty of partners.

 

Leadership is defined many different ways.

Those here overwhelmingly see only one path forward... which doesn't work well with such a diverse market.

That's why the SUV sells so well, despite blatant upfront and ongoing extra cost.

 

exactly.

 

Both sides of this discussion should keep that in mind.
Toyota just happened to be ahead of the curve with the introduction of the Prius.
Those early adopters that now want to go BEV need to leave Toyota or wait, and make peace with their disappointment.
The Toyota's success with hybrids does not mean other technologies they are investing in will come to market.

 

absolutely. we can't let our disappointment cloud our judgement. yes, most of us believe that toyota could produce a very compelling bev. but just because they choose not to doesn't make them bad guys. it just makes them the same as everyone else, trying to find the best path forward, and balancing a lot of different needs.
time to take off the rose colored glasses and buy a leaf or bolt, or tesla if you can afford one, and really want one.
i suspect most wouldn't buy one, even if it was a toyota.

 

Know your audience.

How many hundreds of time have I said that? The repetition comes from some still not recognizing the fundamental difference between who they are and mainstream consumers. Ordinary showroom shoppers see the world very differently. Toyota understands this... hence the success for decades with Corolla and Camry.

Electrification is a paradigm-shift so profound, it's easy to frighten people away. Think about how difficult it has been to get people to embrace smart-phones. Many who finally switched to one use only basic features. That's a cheap & easy upgrade compared to the purchase of a vehicle. It makes the idea of really taking advantage of what that tech has to offer a painful reality to accept... since, most will not.

The key is finally ways to compel that fickle audience. Tesla isn't even bothering to target them. They offer an outstanding product for those aware & willing to pay that premium. Toyota is going after a much different group of buyers. So, even just the idea of "jumping ship" is rather absurd. The groups are far too different.

Know your audience.

 

Perhaps, but the Spark EV would probably be sufficient for that purpose alone.

 

The in-dealerships date for all states looks like September of 2018, still a few months away.