Toyota Owners Jump Ship to Tesla

What results? Which goals? In other words, you just did the glossing. Are you truly aware of what Toyota wanted to achieve with this generation's rollout?

This is the fundamental problem Volt enthusiasts faced. What was GM trying to accomplish?

Same goes for Tesla. What market segment do they wish to capture and how much of it?

 

That comment is true, but Toyota US marketing still insists that a Hybrid is not a car or truck, but something else entirely. They are listed in their own sales category on the site.

Until Toyota US marketing realizes they are cars and trucks and offers them appropriately, they are still living in the dark ages.

 

Not wanting them to draw attention to the fact that they have a wide selection of hybrids available is rather bizarre.

Did know the hybrid is also listed as a package choice within the car or truck of your selection?
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Okay I will get specific, specifically Toyota. Although Toyota was a leader in hybrid technology, they turned their back on EV development in lieu of the ill conceived (and dreadfully ugly) Murai. Toyota could have produced a BEV in 2010 when Tesla did but they denied the viability of the technology. I could not afford a Tesla Model S in 2012 and would have purchased a 2012 Prius BEV instead, but it did not exist. So the nearest thing Prius had was a PHEV with 15 miles electric, which had a $40K sticker price by the way. Toyota could be producing a whole fleet of BEVs today but instead they rely on the outdated hybrid technology. The only reason they are planning for a full production, mass market BEV (which might be available in 2020) is because of the success of Tesla, GM Bolt, and Nissan Leaf. If it were not for that, they would still be pushing ICE vehicles with a reluctant nod to hybrids. Yes, Toyota is being dragged kicking and screaming (and for financial viability) into BEV technology.

 

That narrative only works if you disregard the efficiency level Toyota delivered. The traction-motors in Prius & Camry are quite impressive. You must also turn a blind-eye to the vapor-injected heat-pump we get in Prime.

Like it or not, battery production (cost, tech, capacity, etc) still isn't there yet for any automaker. For that matter, neither is the infrastructure.

 

Bingo!

 

You seem to be saying that Toyota’s technology is right up there with the best. I don’t think any of us disagree with that, but the simple fact is that they’re not marketing any BEVs. Meanwhile, Nissan, Tesla, GM, VW, Ford, Hyundai, (etc.) are. They are behind.

 

That "any of us" group only believes there is one way to success. It's a classic business error. Take an economics class, paying close attention to the difference between top-down and bottom-up approaches.

 

I’m a Toyota customer, not a stockholder nor an executive. I’m not interested in the business case; I want a Toyota BEV.

This time around, I settled with a Toyota PHEV, but if the LEAF didn’t look so awful, or if the Bolt had come out sooner, Toyota may have lost me as a customer.

 

Economics is about the masses, addressing that larger market. Your role is quite different and it makes no sense trying to apply that perspective to a different audience. Recognize the importance & role of each.

 

Two things I see here:
Carb credits; everyone is playing the California game to sell their gas hogs. Toyota doesn’t need a bev, because their fleet is so efficient.

Tesla has no other options, so why compare?
Bolt is the only real alternative to Tesla, and looking at sales, why would Toyota want to get in that game?

 

While tax-credits are still at play, it is very much a game for legacy automakers.

Avoiding that mess will likely prove a very wise move... especially knowing how long a product-cycle can be.

 

I’ll buy that up to a point, that “point” being that this demographic is changing pretty rapidly, in part due to the China EV mandate. Other companies are responding by scrambling to secure sufficient supplies of Lithium and Cobalt to meet that demand. Meanwhile, Toyota has yet to even bring a BEV to market. However, I am pleased to hear that they are investing in solid-state battery technology.

 

I thought Toyota had a bev in china, but in either case, I think you’re buying into the hype.
Toyota doesn’t need a bev now to make a good one if the time ever comes when they become profitable.

 

Turning a blind-eye to the lithium battery use in Prius is a very real problem. Why aren't you acknowledging the choice to use lots of small packs to reach lots more people?

Think about how important it is to reach the market now with some type of electrification. When solid-state does become realistic, they will have a large market of potential already established.

Look at how terrible for job GM did rushing to market. Nothing but conquest costly mistake.

 

Why would they, when they’re making money hand over fist selling everything but?

 

400K is a teeny-tiny quantity when you consider annual sales, in just once major market.

Sustainable sales are a much greater challenge.

 

I think you’re talking about Toyota having great technology and a good business strategy. I have no concerns about their technology, and am uninterested in their business strategy. I’m saying that they‘re currently behind Nissan, Tesla, Hyundai, VW, Honda and others in pushing BEVs.

However, as for what Toyota has done in hybrids, I applaud it, and I buy it, literally and figuratively.

 

That does not help for purpose-built hybrids like the Prius or Prime which, contrary to appearances are not cars.

It works only for "bolt-on" hybrids like Camry, Avalon, & RAV4. Pay extra money but do not get the full benefit of a purpose built hybrid.