Featured Ford to stop selling most cars in North America

You've called a PHEV a guzzler for using more electricity than the Prime when it is still much better than those traditional vehicles.
Did you consider the Honda Clarity before your Prius Prime? | Page 10 | PriusChat

To get the public to switch to hybrids and plug ins, you have to offer them as the cars the public wants. All those Rav4 hybrid buyers would not have bought a Prius or Camry hybrid if there wasn't a SUV hybrid option.

Only Toyota has had a hybrid offering for longer than Ford, and they intend to have more in the future.

Is the Escape a large car? Will fuel economy like that of the Rav4 hybrid be too low for higher gas prices?

The name predates my commenting on the internet by several years.

I had a Taurus, so this news is disappointing. Yet Ford is only doing this in North America, and their white space comment is about new designs that fill the gap between traditional cars and crossovers. Several crossovers are already really close to a car already.

When these white spaced car replacements arrive, they aren't going to be the FSP people seem to be expecting. These SUVized cars are already on the market.
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The 1 to 2 MPG in reduction would not be saved if the buyers weren't going to buy a car either way.

It will be the global Ranger they sell elsewhere. Yeah, it is bigger than the old truck. It might be a antibody.

Fuel economy regulations are what helped kill the small truck. Vehicles with smaller foot prints have higher targets. The target a smaller pick up truck is technically more difficult to reach than for the one for larger trucks.

 

I think it's primarily profit margins, fueled by popularity or legitimately, lack of popularity that makes small hatch-backs and sedans a hard sell in North America.
I have to admit, the vast majority of Americans want SUV's, Trucks, and/or what they consider fuel efficient Crossovers.

Personally, I find this disappointing. In an urban, even suburban driving environment I actually enjoy driving a small vehicle a whole lot more. They are fun, agile, easy to maneuver and park, and they by default give better gas mileage. But we are in a cycle where North Americans seem adverse to embracing a small vehicle, sedan or hatch-back.

I also blame the automakers themselves. I think because of smaller demand, coupled with smaller profit margins, they don't even really bother to promote their small vehicle choices.

I currently own a Honda Fit. Which is Honda's entry level, sub-compact hatch offering. I think it's a great vehicle. BUT...I can count on one hand, probably less than 3 fingers, how often I have ever seen a commercial for The Honda Fit. It's barely promoted. I still meet people, and when I say I drive a Honda Fit...they say "What?". If you watch most of Honda's general commercials, you'd think their line-up went from CRV to Honda Civic.

I think a small vehicle is often the best choice, for a lot of driving applications. It's clearly most often the more economical choice. But buyers in mass in North America don't seem to favor them, and due to smaller profit margins, conversely automaker don't seem to promote them.

Maybe it is generational to an extent. I grew up with original VW bugs, followed by VW rabbits-which were a big hit in the 70's, especially in the light of the gas shortages of the time. I was a fan of original small Civic hatch-backs. My parent owned a mid-1970's Corolla station wagon, which they chose as a slight step up in size from a VW rabbit, but they saw as an economical choice, smaller choice, than the National Lampoon like "Family Truckster" like Station Wagons sold at the time.
Later we owned a small Toyota Tercel.

There have always been small vehicles in my family.

The trend away from Sedans and hatch-back is disturbing.

But if Hybrid technology, and just efficiency advancement- can elevate SUV's and Crossovers, to being as efficient as a small hatch-back, then I suppose I can at least understand why the sub-compact, and sedan segments become difficult to support.
I still think it's sad.

 

Honda's pushing the heck out of the Clarity plug-in around here. Their commercial is on TV about every half hour.

 

Seeing the same in Northern California. First time seeing a PHEV/BEV get this level of TV advertising. Let’s see how sales translate.

 

This is the commercial.

 

yes, the escape and rav4 are large cars. you must be too young to remember history. it's easy to forget gas lines and people who wish they could trade in on an econobox which toyota and honda et al will still be offering, while hybrid crossovers rust on dealer lots.

 

Jealous. I see nothing but truck and SUV ads around here.

 

That is a bald-faced lie, sir.

 

Kinda surprising since MD is a CARB state.

 

Lotus is looking for car buyers just like you!
An Evora 400/410 is kinda on my next-cars list.

I also think you're forgetting one thing: Americans are increasingly looking for cars as big as they are.

 

almost fell off my chair when I saw the same Prius Prime add run on TV at least 3X in the past 2 months.

it doesn't account for Respiratory injuries, nor military intervention costs to keep the juice from other places in the world slowing here. And fracking surpluses won't last much longer.
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sorry, double post

 

Take it up with the Federal Reserve, it’s all their data. If you don’t believe their data and the mainstream economists who do on the left and right, seems doubtful you will agree.

I would not call them liars, however. Instead of insults, providing data is helpful and more believeable.

 

I'm not forgetting.
It's one of the first things I said:
"I have to admit, the vast majority of Americans want SUV's, Trucks, and/or what they consider fuel efficient Crossovers. "

Unfortunately, one of our national motto's has become "Supersize Me!".
And automakers are far too willing to oblige.

 

meh, can't blame them. If they don't sell here, then why offer them. GM couldn't get the hint when I was in the business. Darn things sat on the lot for 200+ days. So yeah. Why not stop offering them. People want trucks, SUV's then give them what they want I say.

 

Hatchbacks aren't going away. They might even be seeing an improvement in sales as buyers realize they can get a better deal, and perhaps space, than the small SUV. Then in the markets that Ford is continuing to sell traditionally styled cars, the hatchback and wagon tend to be more popular than the sedan.

I preferred the Sonic over the Camry in terms of driving and comfort, but it has limitations that favor the Camry for a single car household.

Historically, small cars have been seen more as entry level new cars, but the only ones that are still actually cheap are ones like the Spark and Mirage. With sales and incentives, getting a Cruze(now available as a hatchback) over a Sonic isn't taking on a financial burden. Then the reliability of cars has greatly improved with longer service lives. This makes getting a used car of the next class size up more attractive than it has in the past.

Fuel economy has also improved. This comparison is more on the extreme side, but it applied us. The current Rav4 AWD's combined EPA rating matches the 2001 Sable's adjusted highway rating. The Camry does even better, and that is part of why we got, but for many in the US, a SUV getting the fuel economy of the sedan they might be replacing, while getting the versatility of the long gone wagon, with the confidence of AWD, is good enough for them. It gets better if they choose a hybrid, and speculation has the next Rav4h getting 40mpg.

Considering the last ZEV credit possible car they offered was the Fit EV, and FCEVs aren't as popular as supporters hoped, Honda might be in need of ZEV credits.

Could it be an issue of availability on dealer lots?

Weren't the gas lines back in the '70s?

Wagons became cool again when we started calling them SUVs. Wouldn't surprise me if this is just a marketing maneuver to rebrand cars as something else. Ford is still going to need something on the small and efficient side that sells to balance all those F150s for CAFE.

 

I agree.
But in North America, The United States, it's clear the trend is away from smaller vehicles, such as hatch-backs. Because of a tighter profit margin, I really don't think most automakers invest a whole lot into promotion.

When I purchased my Honda Fit, the salesman I was dealing with, actually handed me off to a "Junior-much younger less experienced" salesman. He tried to do it in as least insulting a way possible, but I knew the truth was, he just wanted to go after what he considered bigger fish. My "little" Honda Fit purchase wasn't something he even wanted to spend a lot of time on.

But I agree, especially globally, there are places in Europe and Asia, where you need a small vehicle.
And yes, I don't expect small cars, hatchbacks to entirely disappear.

But also perhaps some credit has to be given to improving efficiency. They are building larger vehicles that are getting better gas mileage. For example the Honda HRV, has an EPA of 28/34 in comparison to my sub-compact Honda Fit with an EPA of 33/40.
For a lot of people that +/- of 5 mpg, isn't worth driving a sub-compact.

If Ford and other automakers continue to improve efficiency, with perhaps combining more Hybrid technology, thus being able to offer bigger vehicles with greater MPG....that may be how they meet those CAFE standards.

 

From concern about "too little, too slowly" to it now just being "if". That's a terrible sign.

Remember how both Ford and GM used to offer SUV hybrids, but then stopped? Why did they abandon their effort to improve efficiency & emissions in larger vehicles? In other words, what will be the incentive to restart that effort again? What will they end up delivering?

All those questions bring us back to the original concern. Neither automaker strived to advance or spread their technology. We witnessed full product-cycles run their course without anything following to attract a large audience. CAFE standards were not taken seriously.

 

Yes.
But this sentence is being routinely ignored, and because it's not as alarmist or as exciting a headline, we aren't talking about this.
From the Yahoo article:

"Ford also today reaffirmed its commitment to bringing hybrid-electric powertrains to the F-150, Mustang, Explorer, Escape and upcoming Bronco. "

It's a lot more "click enticing" to run an article proclaiming Ford to Stop Selling Cars! Than it is to run an article saying Ford is planning to expand hybrid technology to their line-up.

If there is any truth to that single sentence, than my hope is we do see Hybrid, more efficient "Big Vehicles".

Maybe my dream vehicle would be an ultra fuel efficient Mustang.
I better start saving up now.