Suitable substitutes for the Toyota ATF-WS transmission or transaxle fluid?

Yet Kendall says that LV is okay in a CVT. Kendall

 

So does Citgo.

 

It appears to me, that you are not distinguishing between "CVT" and "eCVT".

Please read the Kendall application again:

"Hybrid vehicles with electronic continuously variable transmissions (eCVTs) where the OEM specifies a MERCON LV or Toyota Type WS fluid"​

Notice that Kendall makes the important distinction between CVT and eCVT.

 

This-This-This.

I'm sure it's been said repeatedly in these 8 pages, but the Prius transaxle is planetary gear set bathed in oil. It simply (and simply is used literally here) impersonates a CVT and that's where the similarities end. From a maintenance and durability standpoint, it's CVT done right.

The Pennzoil LV will be as good or better than any LV or light DEX 6 in Prius application. WS in it's Toyota labelled, Exxon-Mobil blended form is nothing special. It could be called Toyota "NS".

 

I would put compulsion to try alternate transaxle fluids (when Toyota adamantly warns against it) in the same category as the compulsion to run the gas tank near-dry.

Well not quite: there's at least some research merit in trying alternate fluids. Personally I'll play it safe.

Also, for those that do use an alternative fluid, perhaps this is something you should disclose to potential buyers when selling the car?

 

Fact one is after market fluid like Redline is 100% synthetic fluid no nothing no sulphur. Fact 2 is the car came with WS so just use that.
No investigation required.

 

I just found this German product on ebay for almost a third the price of the Toyota ATF-WS -

£23-00 for 4 litres including shipping = us $8 per litre

Toyota ATF WS Dealer price = £15 per litre (us $21 per litre)





Mannol ATF WS Automatic Special is a special synthetic hydraulic liquid for Toyota transmissions with the control of speeds slide. Thoroughly selected additives and synthetic components provide the best friction properties when gear changing, perfect low-temperature properties, high antioxygenic and chemical stability during the whole operation cycle. Is created for most of the 5- and 6-stepped automatic transmissions used in Toyota cars since 2005.



Corresponds with requirements / specifications / products:
AISIN WARNER
BMW 4 and 5 speed European
CHRYSLER ATF +3 / 4
MAN 339 Type Z-1
MB 4 and 5 speed European
TOYOTA T-III / T-IV / WS Lifetime
VOITH ATs 55.6335
VW 4 and 5 speed European

Product Characteristics:
Characteristics Method Unit Value
Density at 15°C D 1298 kg/m³ 846
Flash point COC D 92 °C 216
Pour point D 97 °C -45
Viscosity at -40°C D 2983 CP 13100
Viscosity at 100°C D 445 CSt 7,05
Viscosity at 40°C D 445 CSt 34,5
Viscosity index D 2270 172

Sudheimer Car Technik - Vertriebs GmbH

 

Amazon

$9 + A QUART

 

In North America it is relatively cheap, but other parts of the world price is many times more?

 

When I looked on Amazon UK the other day, there was no one offering Toyota ATF WS. One dealer on Ebay was, at a price 30% better than most dealers, but they then became unlisted on Ebay, didn't fullfill the order, and I had to get my money back.

Today on ebay, I can find nobody offering the Toyota ATF WS - on Amazon.co.uk I can find one dealer - price £13.99 per litre.

The local Toyota dealers do not stock it at all, because they say they have never needed to change it for anyone! - so it would be special order.

Incidentally - I looked for a PCV valve for my car, and could not find one offered online anywhere in the UK, so ordered one from the States. The price was about $6.50, the postage was as much again, and it remains to be seen what I will have to pay in duty and charges when it arrives! If the total is any less than £28 I will be quite pleased....

 

It's appropo that this thread has been revived, because a recent experience has me needing to update an earlier recommendation I made. At 96K miles I replaced my transaxle fluid with a WS rated ATF fluid branded from Aisin... which is the company that makes Toyota's tranmissions. At 110K miles, the car developed a mild "studder" at all engine and vehicle speeds. It didn't feel like a miss, didn't feel like something loose or out of allignment -- it felt like it was in the driveline. At 113K I changed the fluid to OEM Toyota WS ATF, and the studder almost completely eliminated -- it's still there very slightly at highway speeds.

So my new recommendation: USE ONLY OEM TOYOTA WS ATF.

 

I hear what you say - but, isn't a misfire a more likely cause of the issue you mention? The power split device is such a simple mechanism - very different from a normal auto transmission - so it's hard to imagine how the Aisin fluid could make a difference, especially one that is improved immediately by use of the recommended fluid? Their are no clutches to slip

If the gear-train was being damaged by poor lubircation, would that not be permanent damage/wear to gears, something that a change of oil would be unlikely to improve?

Many years ago I bought a brand new Alfa 33. The makers said you should strictly only use an expensive oil made by Agip. I'd always used the then most popular Castrol multigrade oil. I phoned up Castrol to ask if their oil was okay for my car, they said 'yes' and I used it for years afterward with no problems! (This was in a country where ALL the base motor oil was 'recycled' - it even had a burnt smell, despite being as clear amber as any virgin oil)

I feel happy using the cheaper oil and, at the price, will be more likely to change it more often.

BTW Here in the EU a company could be in big trouble if they stated their product was specially formulated for Toyota transmissions when it wasn't. So I'd be very suprised if a reputable German company would make such claims without good reason.

I guess only time will tell! BTW I see low mileage examples of my car being 'broken' all the time. So the absolute worst case is that I would have to get a used transmission for about £400...

 

+Kingsway+
The g2 is basically a manual gearbox not possible for trans fluid to cause a "studder" really. To condemn the fluid is really not fair especially when you say its still there with WS. I think this trans is so tough it would probably run on anything. Its an awesome piece of engineering.

I think you may have the beginnings of a misfire.

 

@Kingsway and @edthefox5

Excellent points. This is going to require more investigating.

 

The questioned Valvoline ATF has a note that due to viscosity difference it is not recommended in certain applications, depending on whether it is a CARB State, or some sort of language like that. Could this be a thicker variant, requiring more work by the engine, amplifying knock as suggested?...

 

Being in North America where Toyota ATF WS is reasonably priced, and considering the warning in the Owner's Manual against using any alternate fluids, I wouldn't waste too much energy on pros-and-cons: doing a change with the kosher stuff is low hanging fruit, try it.

 

The local dealership gives me the creeps... Anything I can do to stay out of their clutches is good for me!

 

This is the Mannol Product I actually received... Looks like I may indeed be using 'OEM Toyota ATF WS' according to the letter of thelaw of Warranty requirements/Manufacturer recommendations!!

 

I don't know the backstory here..but seriously...just use the Toyota ATF-WS fluid. I'm assuming price is the issue?

 

"Shudder" not stutter. It doesnt have a speech impediment, kiddo. Verbage is everything just like grammar and punctuation.