Is it worth it to replace HYRBID BATTERY on an 03 PRIUS?

Thanks 3prongpaul - I just had the triangle of death and after a lot of careful thought I decided to go with a new battery from Toyota approximately $2800 installed - so with the three year warranty and the fact that I plan on keeping this car for at least 5 years going with a new battery made sense - even though I have more money invested in the car than it is worth

But one question I have for the forum is does it make sense to use later generation batteries, or battery cells, in Gen 1 Prius?

Do the Gen 2+ batteries last longer? Provide more energy? Provide greater performance such as improved acceleration? Improve gas mileage when used in a Gen 1 Prius?

 

If you buy, from Toyota, a new HV battery for a Gen 1 (or Gen 2 or Gen 3), the modules used are the latest generation, so I think your questions are moot.

 

Gen1 modules are physically a little different than Gen2/3 modules (which are the same physically). Each style of module can be "made to fit" in whatever battery chassis you want with a little persuasion. The batteries that Toyota sells contain modules that have been manufactured within the last year or so.

AFAIK the electrolyte inside the modules, voltage etc is all the same. If your car is Gen1 the best option is a new Gen1 pack from Toyota. This will cost much less than buying 1.5 gen2 packs. (Gen1 battery has 38 modules inside, Gen2/3 have 28).

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Had a DIY customer the other day who has been trying to fix his Gen2 battery himself for the last few weeks. He bought grid charger setup, he tried balance charging, he tried a Dorman battery (it soon failed so he returned it), he bought a few loose modules and swapped "the worst ones" after manually balancing them.

He could not get his battery to work reliably. After many frustrating weeks (and this was his only car which he depends on to get to work etc) He finally came in and bought a brand new Toyota battery from us. This was after I had had been telling him the whole time do not attempt to fix your own battery "unless you have another car, lots of time, and like to gamble."

Originally he wanted to save some money, he ended up wasting a lot of time (and also money).
As my father used to say "do it right or do it twice"

 

Hi dolj - Do you have any documentation about whether the new modules are the latest generation modules or not? I was hoping that buying a new battery would mean the latest toyota battery technology packaged for use in a Gen 1 but I can get no confirmation of that from the local toyota dealer. When I ask others they say that I purchased newly manufactored Gen 1 modules in a brand new case that will last 100,000 to 150,000 (which is good for me) or they say as you did that the battery modules in the new Gen 1 battery packs from Toyota are latest generation battery technology (Gen 3?) packaged for use in a Gen 1. I would like some documentatiin from Toyota on this but again have not been able to find it.

I am continuing to ask these questions to know more about the battery I bought for my 2002 and maintain it better but also to be more informed about my options if and when the battery in my wifes 2001 goes bad.

Thanks for your input - I appreciate it!

 

Thanks 3prongpaul - based on the receipts I have from the prevous owner your response looks like it echos the history of my 2002 - it looks like the original battery went out, a used battery was purchased in Sacramento, it also failed and the PO purchased some modules and replaced them - they failed on me 6 or 7 thousand miles later. A Prius mechanic at Hybrid Haven here in the North Bay recommended purchasing new from Toyota as they did not have confidence in remanufactored battery packs. It seems they agree with the advice you provide here so it is nice to have some conformation.

There is a blog from Lucious Garage which indicates they have stopped rebuilding battery packs themselves as they had about a 50% fail rate if I read their blog right and now only advise installing nee battery packs from Toyota.

Also just to confirm your post suggests that Toyota is using the same general materials and technology for all the new battery packs - just packaging them differently for the different Gen 1, Gen 2, and Gen 3 applications - Would that be a far assessment?

Thanks again for you contributions and sharing your experience

As an aside I am a CU grade and spent a number of years in Boulder!

 

New gen 1 batteries do not use gen 2/gen 3 modules. They use recently manufactured Gen 1 style modules. The module physical dimensions are different between Gen 1 and gen 2/3. Maybe I should add .....at least the Gen 1's that I have with 2015 manufacture dates. I suppose I could provide module photos if you need it.

Edit: My mistake, the battery case assembly has a 21YQ code on the serial number sticker and 12YO on the modules. I keep thinking Q is 2015, but that is only for the modules. Q on the case is 2013. The 12YO on the modules is Nov 12, 2013 manufacture date. But they are Gen 1 style. I can neither confirm nor deny what modules are used in anything more recently manufactured

 

Thanks for this great information - Good confirmation that new Gen 1 modules are Gen 1 specific - I am going to change the rear shocks in the next couple of weeks - since I need to remove the rear seat I will get the serial number off the case - don't think that I will be able to see serial numbers for the individual modules as I am not going to open the case

 

Hello, all. I am trying to figure out -- if so many of the things must be transferred to the new battery pack, and many of these components -- now 18 yrs old w my car -- could fail, how can a new battery really be considered new?

But, if I may ask, I have received varying quotes/warranties from dlrs in my area re the new batteries -- what is the dlr cost and how much time should it really take to install in a gen 1? Thanks!

 

That is a reasonable observation and yes, they could fail. But on average they have proved to be very reliable. If you want to have a new HV Battery ECU, for example, you only have to insist and for an additional $600 your wish is their command.

Because it has all new battery modules and that is the most critical thing.

 

Thank you for all this great info! I just discussed this whole thing with friend who has 166,000 mile Ford. She said tjust replace the battery and move on. I said that it is hard to do that when I've just had one instance of error code coming on, couldn't be replicated at dealer and car has driven like a dream since.

After reading so many posts here, talking to a various reman battery people, etc. I also think a new pack is best idea. I found a dealer who says 8 or 10 yr warranty.

The info detailed here re whether the GEN 1 battery packs use GEN 1 technology cells or the better GEN 2/3 was a question I had as well, since one reman place kept emphasizing how cells were newer than original.

It sounds like they are better than they were 18 yrs ago even though not same as gen 2/3 due to size.
correct?

But, still need to know -- what other conditions could cause the P3000/P3006 besides battery going bad? (besides wire harness corrosion -- and, if it is wire harness corrosion, how many hours does it take to fix?) Where p3000, 3006 never came back after some minor problem fixed which was triggering the p3006 and was not a bad hybrid battery.

Can anyone point me to a really good honest Prius mechanic in Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia area so that if it's a wiring harness or other problem they will say so and not just tell me i need a new battery.

Also, would appreciate input re whether, if my battery truly going bad, my diagnostic can look perfectly fine with no more than .30 spread voltages in freeze frame. If intermittent would it really still look perfect?


much thanks!

 

I am very skeptical of there being an 8 or 10 year warranty on a replacement battery. The standard Toyota warranty for that is 3 years if they install it. (1 year if you do it yourself) Get it in writing!

It would take quite a few hours of labor to replace a wring harness plus the actual cost of the harness. Likely a $500 to $1,000 job if you pay someone else to do it. Just the price of the harness if you do it yourself.

 

One of my two gen 1 Pri's has a relatively new battery, replaced in Oct. 2013. It's the car I take on long, interstate trips inspite of the fact that the car has over 200K. I've done some repairs--a brake booster pump, and an inverter coolant pump. And flushed all the coolant, motor oil, transmission oil, and brake fluid. It's become a very reliable car. My other one has 150K and the original HV battery (as far as i can tell.) It's also a gem! I guess if I lived in the PNW, I'd pay to have a mid life pre purchase inspection on the car by an indie Hybrid shop. If there's a lot of chassis rust, I'd probably drive it til it drops and then move on.

 

Thanks, Ericbecky, Brian, everybody else -
Well, service manager at dealer told me could be 12v battery -- as had limp mode light go off several times over last year or so.
He said that 12v --if going -- will often cause various lights to go off.

My 12v wasn't checked in diagnostic when they found the p3006, p3000 error codes. it's a free check -- why wouldn't they?

I've had the car for 70k miles -- either 5 or 6 years-- and never replaced. people i bought from said, I think, that they had replaced a battery and I don't think it was the hybrid.

Service manager also said that hybrid water pump going could cause light to go off.

All I know is I've probably driven it 50 miles and it's perfectly fine.

Could any of you fine folks let me (and person who posted this thread!) know what other kinds of things might cause hybrid triangle of death besides battery being bad? He also said that if it's the battery, they can usually replicate.

Also, if service manager just told me that a 12v could cause tri of death, why did every other mechanic I tqlked to tell me that 12v has nada to do w hyb battery?

Input much appreciated!

 

It's just that computers start acting strange when voltage drops too low and the Prius is nothing more than a computer on wheels. If you are having problems with strange behavior confirm the 12 V battery is good then move on to other issues. The 12 V battery has been beat to death on Prius Chat, this is just my opinion.

 

More accurately the Prius is a network of computers on wheels.

+1, good advice.

 

Yes and by looking at the newer wiring diagrams there are specialty modules everywhere.

 

Thanks, all. Update: 12v good. (304/320). Driving fine. Advisor at dealership said "anything" could cause triangle of death; he said even a misfire or a coil issue (have had 2 replaced). He said they'd had 2018s with error codes. He said many are never explained. This is driving me crazy, not to speak of fact that I have 2 long-ish trips in next 2 days.

Yet, my friend with a 166k Ford and boyfriend w 1994 truck, never an error code.

Another mechanic looked at my spark plugs 4 mos. ago and said fine.

I do not believe that just "nothing" causes an error code. Can any of you experts postulate anything else that could have caused tri of death beyond battery? (now been 1.5 weeks after dealer couldn't replicate).
thanks much! you know more than I!
happy sr pat's!

 

There are videos on you tube that will show you how to repair the Gen 1 HV battery.

 

Is that a Toyota dealership? If not it is likely their code scanner cannot read Toyota’s hybrid error codes.
If the triangle is lit there are code telling what the car thinks is wrong. The dealer’s Toyota Techstream software can read the codes. There are likely more codes than your dealer is seeing.